‘89 DTRE NO SPARK!!
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I have an ‘89 DTRE engine which I bought an ‘89 wiring harness and electrics for to install in a Derbi GPR frame.
Anyway, it turns over but doesn’t have spark.
I believe it could be because I am using a F4FU-00 Flywheel and a 3MB-00 stator. Could this affect it? I don’t know much about the numbers but the flywheel was the only thing that I didn’t buy with the rest of the electrics.
I’ve bridged the kickstand switch, I’ve bridged the oil sensor switch. I’m really stumped… all of the electrics came off a running bike. It must be the pickup being incompatible with the flywheel?
Could anyone point me towards the right flywheel for my 3MB-00 Stator please? -
Not aware of an '89 DTRE engine.
In the UK the DTRE was from 5-07 where the bike was discontinued, but in France there was some Electric start DTR engines. But I don't know too much about those.
The best thing to do in theae situations when you're lost, is get the bike back to standard. This means fixing the sidestand switch and 'oil sensor switch' (I presume you mean the neutral switch on the bottom of the engine).
These engines are incredibly simple, so it shouldn't take too much head scratching to figure out.
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Not aware of an '89 DTRE engine.
In the UK the DTRE was from 5-07 where the bike was discontinued, but in France there was some Electric start DTR engines. But I don't know too much about those.
The best thing to do in theae situations when you're lost, is get the bike back to standard. This means fixing the sidestand switch and 'oil sensor switch' (I presume you mean the neutral switch on the bottom of the engine).
These engines are incredibly simple, so it shouldn't take too much head scratching to figure out.
@Calum
Oh right, I was told it was an ‘89 DTR engine due to the engine numbers and its electric start so I presumed DTRE. The guy I bought then engine off said it was for Gilera SC / Derbi GPR so could be a later engine.
By oil level switch I mean the sensor in the oil tank that tells you when it’s running low. I read somewhere that it can cause the bike to not start as a safety feature.
Anyways. The engine is in a Derbi GPR frame so getting it back to “standard” isn’t as straight forward. Is the sidestand switch usually closed or open circuit to allow the bike to start? -
@Calum
Oh right, I was told it was an ‘89 DTR engine due to the engine numbers and its electric start so I presumed DTRE. The guy I bought then engine off said it was for Gilera SC / Derbi GPR so could be a later engine.
By oil level switch I mean the sensor in the oil tank that tells you when it’s running low. I read somewhere that it can cause the bike to not start as a safety feature.
Anyways. The engine is in a Derbi GPR frame so getting it back to “standard” isn’t as straight forward. Is the sidestand switch usually closed or open circuit to allow the bike to start?@raceraidan Let's just focus on the engine at the moment as I am confused as to what you have. If I don't know the engine, then we're going to be chasing a rabbit down a hole here.
If the engine came from a Gilera originally, then it is not an '89 engine.
It'll be a DTRE motor that was found in Yamaha's later production run.
The reason why this is important is because the flywheel on the last revision of engines is inverted. The cranks are different to compensate for this and then so are the stators. Besides the removal of the kickstarter (which can easily be retrofitted) they are identical crankcases/engines. It's only the aforementioned changes.
Secondly, I am not as familiar with the Gilera side of things, I know the engines are similar to the later DTRE, however the ignition is different.
A few years ago I couldn't get my DTR running right (turned out to be a Chinese ignition coild, swapped it for genuine and all problems went away) and when trying to diagnose an issue, I tried to source an OEM DTRE CDI, as I run Zeeltronic ignition system and have had the misfortune of having a faulty one in the past.
RE ignitions have all but dried up (I never should have sold mine) and the only thing I could get my hands on was a Gilera ignition.
Because the engine's are the same, I thought it was worth a punt, but alas I couldn't even get the engine started with the Gilera ignition and as such we need to understand your engine.
You fitting a random engine into a random frame is not going to help us identify the problem. So we need to understand the parts you have in order to diagnose.
There used to be guru's in field like @scrimsmustang who could tell you the engine year from the engine number, unfortunately I don't know how to resolve that, but I can tell you a lot about the engine from some exterior photo shots and whip the generator cover off and get some pics and I'll tell you some more.
Let's go from there and work our way out.
Also yes, with regards to the side stand switch, these can be a royal pain in the bum. Years ago my brother had a 2001 DTR and something was wrong with the sidestand switch and looping it out wasn't sufficient, I can't remember if he grounded the wire, but whatever it was, you legit couldn't start the engine with the key in the 'On' position, you had to kick it over and switch the ignition from off to on to get it to fire up.
So I am weary about the side stand switch.
The oil light I am not worried about as as far as I know, it doesn't loop back into the CDI, but a Haynes wiring diagram will confirm this. If I go into my workshop at some point I will have a look for you.
Always Originate, Never Pirate!
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@raceraidan Let's just focus on the engine at the moment as I am confused as to what you have. If I don't know the engine, then we're going to be chasing a rabbit down a hole here.
If the engine came from a Gilera originally, then it is not an '89 engine.
It'll be a DTRE motor that was found in Yamaha's later production run.
The reason why this is important is because the flywheel on the last revision of engines is inverted. The cranks are different to compensate for this and then so are the stators. Besides the removal of the kickstarter (which can easily be retrofitted) they are identical crankcases/engines. It's only the aforementioned changes.
Secondly, I am not as familiar with the Gilera side of things, I know the engines are similar to the later DTRE, however the ignition is different.
A few years ago I couldn't get my DTR running right (turned out to be a Chinese ignition coild, swapped it for genuine and all problems went away) and when trying to diagnose an issue, I tried to source an OEM DTRE CDI, as I run Zeeltronic ignition system and have had the misfortune of having a faulty one in the past.
RE ignitions have all but dried up (I never should have sold mine) and the only thing I could get my hands on was a Gilera ignition.
Because the engine's are the same, I thought it was worth a punt, but alas I couldn't even get the engine started with the Gilera ignition and as such we need to understand your engine.
You fitting a random engine into a random frame is not going to help us identify the problem. So we need to understand the parts you have in order to diagnose.
There used to be guru's in field like @scrimsmustang who could tell you the engine year from the engine number, unfortunately I don't know how to resolve that, but I can tell you a lot about the engine from some exterior photo shots and whip the generator cover off and get some pics and I'll tell you some more.
Let's go from there and work our way out.
Also yes, with regards to the side stand switch, these can be a royal pain in the bum. Years ago my brother had a 2001 DTR and something was wrong with the sidestand switch and looping it out wasn't sufficient, I can't remember if he grounded the wire, but whatever it was, you legit couldn't start the engine with the key in the 'On' position, you had to kick it over and switch the ignition from off to on to get it to fire up.
So I am weary about the side stand switch.
The oil light I am not worried about as as far as I know, it doesn't loop back into the CDI, but a Haynes wiring diagram will confirm this. If I go into my workshop at some point I will have a look for you.
@Calum @raceraidan Interesting thread.
I once owned a 1998 DT125RE French import which looked identical to a DT125R the same year (pic 1). It had a larger battery and separate toolikt compartment as well as the electric start wiring.
During this time I was fortunate enough to source a Yamaha service manual for this exact model, I still have this and here are some pictures of the wiring diagram. I believe KTM also used this engine/electrical platform for the LC2 125 which they sold a lot of in Germany (I bought 2 or 3 3MB CDI units marked LC2 125 from German breakers, and also some NIP 3MB YPVS servos which had both the Yamaha and KTM part numbers on the packaging (sadly now all sold). During my ownership I tried all these items on the bike and they all just plugged into the loom (same connectors) and worked. I'm pretty certain the (inverted) flywheel and stator were both stamped 3MB.
As you can see this model also has a clutch switch which IIRC, with the clutch pulled in, allows you to start the engine in gear even with the sidestand down, but cuts the ignition when you let out the clutch to try and pull away. If you've already looked at the sidestand switch I'd locate this and give it a dose of WD40 etc. as a starting point. Also the two relays (items 12 and 13) are worth a look although I'm not sure how you'd go about testing these.
It might be of some help to just get some more and plug them in and try them. Here's a link to the KTM parts fiche; search Google/eBay etc. for the KTM part numbers as well as Yamaha France and you might get lucky with a European breaker as they can be quite diligent with posting up used parts for sale including the original numbers:
https://www.trevorpopemotorcycles.co.uk/index.php?main_page=ktm_fiche_finder
Here are some pics of the wiring diagram, not sure if the Gilera SC125 used the same electrical platform but hope this helps:
