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Trying to fix an issue

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Carburetor
jettingair screw
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  • Stevie WonderS Offline
    Stevie WonderS Offline
    Stevie Wonder
    wrote on last edited by
    #29

    £70 for new jap valve, air screw to free’d up and the pilot jet drilled out with a replacement jet. Definitely not to shabby.

    @markus-w i know mate, I know.
    I could’ve swapped it out after inspecting it just to rule it out the question but I didn’t. It’s a lesson learnt.
    Not feeling to hard about it though as either way I’d have had to give someone my carb to drill the pilot jet out

    Also the pair of you are angels. I’ll be buying one of those immediately to avoid this happening again

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Stevie WonderS Offline
      Stevie WonderS Offline
      Stevie Wonder
      wrote on last edited by Stevie Wonder
      #30

      Good news!

      No fuel leaks, bike feels a bit more powerful too however I fear that she still won’t Rev out and through band.

      I rode the bike last night after letting it warm up whilst I worked on the fazer and she revved out further then before
      but felt hesitant. Not the sort of little hesitation an oil injected two stroke has when going through the band the first or second time either.

      Last time I had this problem the powervalve was the issue (plastic pulley was on the incorrect angle of the diamond, causing the pulley to look like it’s correct whilst making your valve offset and out of alignment with your exhaust port…)

      To deal with this I’m bring a 5mm Allen key so I can loosen the bolts and spin the pulley cover to check the valve is fully rotating. I’ll also disconnect the powervalve and set it as ”pinned” so we no if the problem ensues it rules anything powervalve related.

      So on this grim cloudy yet still warm Sunday, I’m gonna get Stella the DT out and brush off the cobwebs.

      Given the air box etc has been cleaned with new filter and mesh it’s fair to say we can rule anything to do with that being a problem.

      The carbs just been sorted out, idle screw is now responsive again and an air screw that moves freely.
      could the air screw being in the wrong position cause this?

      Whilst the carb was out I took the Liberty of removing the Reed cage to inspect the reeds etc, they’re all spotless and OEM. I couldn’t see anything wrong with them.

      My pipes getting a little bit rusty at the neck but still has no holes in it so I can rule that out

      So I guess all that leaves us with is electrics? Which funnily enough all work

      Fingers crossed that when I take her out she’s a happy girl and I get to enjoy the feeling of going through powerband.
      Let’s just say it’s been a while since I last had my fix.

      HOTSHOT IIIH 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Stevie WonderS Stevie Wonder

        Good news!

        No fuel leaks, bike feels a bit more powerful too however I fear that she still won’t Rev out and through band.

        I rode the bike last night after letting it warm up whilst I worked on the fazer and she revved out further then before
        but felt hesitant. Not the sort of little hesitation an oil injected two stroke has when going through the band the first or second time either.

        Last time I had this problem the powervalve was the issue (plastic pulley was on the incorrect angle of the diamond, causing the pulley to look like it’s correct whilst making your valve offset and out of alignment with your exhaust port…)

        To deal with this I’m bring a 5mm Allen key so I can loosen the bolts and spin the pulley cover to check the valve is fully rotating. I’ll also disconnect the powervalve and set it as ”pinned” so we no if the problem ensues it rules anything powervalve related.

        So on this grim cloudy yet still warm Sunday, I’m gonna get Stella the DT out and brush off the cobwebs.

        Given the air box etc has been cleaned with new filter and mesh it’s fair to say we can rule anything to do with that being a problem.

        The carbs just been sorted out, idle screw is now responsive again and an air screw that moves freely.
        could the air screw being in the wrong position cause this?

        Whilst the carb was out I took the Liberty of removing the Reed cage to inspect the reeds etc, they’re all spotless and OEM. I couldn’t see anything wrong with them.

        My pipes getting a little bit rusty at the neck but still has no holes in it so I can rule that out

        So I guess all that leaves us with is electrics? Which funnily enough all work

        Fingers crossed that when I take her out she’s a happy girl and I get to enjoy the feeling of going through powerband.
        Let’s just say it’s been a while since I last had my fix.

        HOTSHOT IIIH Offline
        HOTSHOT IIIH Offline
        HOTSHOT III
        wrote on last edited by
        #31

        @Stevie-Wonder Glad your carb rebuild went well.

        If you want to pin your PV for test purposes, cut down the shank end of an old 4mm drill bit to about 35mm; this obviously locks the pulley in the open position but can't go anywhere when you put the pulley cover back on.

        I keep one of these with the tools I carry on the bike as "get you home" in the event of a PV cable breaking. Just remind yourself to remove it before reconnecting the cables/servo as I think the servo would be powerful enough to wreck its own internal gear train if you switched on the ignition with the PV locked in place like this.

        Also have you ever replaced the HT lead? I had a high rpm misfire on my 1990 and it turned out to be this; took about an hour to change so the bike wasn't at operating temperature by the time I put it back together and tested it, but it was STILL noticeably faster/more responsive than before I changed it (I nearly flipped it pulling out of my driveway😵 ).

        On the stock coil you can cut off the very top of the plastic case (i.e above where the actual lead fits into it), get the old lead out (it's glued in), then clean up the output and solder on the new lead for a really good connection.

        Looks a bit messy as you have to tape it up afterwards and seal with silicone but in practice, usually a better option than a LBS replacement coil as these often have the wrong primary and secondary resistances for specific bikes (and BTW it's also worth measuring these).

        Stevie WonderS 1 Reply Last reply
        1
        • HOTSHOT IIIH HOTSHOT III

          @Stevie-Wonder Glad your carb rebuild went well.

          If you want to pin your PV for test purposes, cut down the shank end of an old 4mm drill bit to about 35mm; this obviously locks the pulley in the open position but can't go anywhere when you put the pulley cover back on.

          I keep one of these with the tools I carry on the bike as "get you home" in the event of a PV cable breaking. Just remind yourself to remove it before reconnecting the cables/servo as I think the servo would be powerful enough to wreck its own internal gear train if you switched on the ignition with the PV locked in place like this.

          Also have you ever replaced the HT lead? I had a high rpm misfire on my 1990 and it turned out to be this; took about an hour to change so the bike wasn't at operating temperature by the time I put it back together and tested it, but it was STILL noticeably faster/more responsive than before I changed it (I nearly flipped it pulling out of my driveway😵 ).

          On the stock coil you can cut off the very top of the plastic case (i.e above where the actual lead fits into it), get the old lead out (it's glued in), then clean up the output and solder on the new lead for a really good connection.

          Looks a bit messy as you have to tape it up afterwards and seal with silicone but in practice, usually a better option than a LBS replacement coil as these often have the wrong primary and secondary resistances for specific bikes (and BTW it's also worth measuring these).

          Stevie WonderS Offline
          Stevie WonderS Offline
          Stevie Wonder
          wrote on last edited by
          #32

          @HOTSHOT-III
          Good idea that bud, I think I used a twig once when I was riding in a Forrest 😂

          Not sure if you knew this though but one of the ignition cycles when you turn on/off the bike leave the PV in the open position instead of closed, once it’s like this all you’ve got to do is unplug the servo via the 4-pin plug by your radiator and you're set

          As for the HT lead, nah I haven’t. I have been looking for an excuse to buy a nice new red “race” ngk one for a while though….

          link text

          What’s on there is an old NGK one or OEM original to the bike

          S 1 Reply Last reply
          1
          • Stevie WonderS Stevie Wonder

            @HOTSHOT-III
            Good idea that bud, I think I used a twig once when I was riding in a Forrest 😂

            Not sure if you knew this though but one of the ignition cycles when you turn on/off the bike leave the PV in the open position instead of closed, once it’s like this all you’ve got to do is unplug the servo via the 4-pin plug by your radiator and you're set

            As for the HT lead, nah I haven’t. I have been looking for an excuse to buy a nice new red “race” ngk one for a while though….

            link text

            What’s on there is an old NGK one or OEM original to the bike

            S Offline
            S Offline
            SpookDog
            wrote on last edited by
            #33

            @Stevie-Wonder

            The power valve is open at default any was. It’s only when you start the bike that it ‘closes’...
            You could pull the plug before starting the engine...

            You do have the power valve set at open/flush when the engine is off don’t you?...

            Stevie WonderS 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • S SpookDog

              @Stevie-Wonder

              The power valve is open at default any was. It’s only when you start the bike that it ‘closes’...
              You could pull the plug before starting the engine...

              You do have the power valve set at open/flush when the engine is off don’t you?...

              Stevie WonderS Offline
              Stevie WonderS Offline
              Stevie Wonder
              wrote on last edited by
              #34

              @SpookDog said in Trying to fix an issue:

              @Stevie-Wonder

              The power valve is open at default any was. It’s only when you start the bike that it ‘closes’...
              You could pull the plug before starting the engine...

              You do have the power valve set at open/flush when the engine is off don’t you?...

              Yep, admittedly I haven’t checked but I doubt it’s just magically jumped out of place since I last set it 😂

              S 1 Reply Last reply
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              • Stevie WonderS Stevie Wonder

                @SpookDog said in Trying to fix an issue:

                @Stevie-Wonder

                The power valve is open at default any was. It’s only when you start the bike that it ‘closes’...
                You could pull the plug before starting the engine...

                You do have the power valve set at open/flush when the engine is off don’t you?...

                Yep, admittedly I haven’t checked but I doubt it’s just magically jumped out of place since I last set it 😂

                S Offline
                S Offline
                SpookDog
                wrote on last edited by
                #35

                @Stevie-Wonder

                How long have you been having this problem? Hasn’t been since you last set up the power valve has it 😁

                Stevie WonderS 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • S SpookDog

                  @Stevie-Wonder

                  How long have you been having this problem? Hasn’t been since you last set up the power valve has it 😁

                  Stevie WonderS Offline
                  Stevie WonderS Offline
                  Stevie Wonder
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #36

                  Since the first or second time I took my carb off to inspect the float valve when fuel was pissing out the overflow

                  I just took the bike out and I’m certain the powervalve is operating as should be and sat in the right place.

                  I do however have a sneaky feeling the air boot isn’t properly sealed, causing an air leak.

                  I’ve also found a little pin prick hole in the carb warmer hose that sends coolant into the carb.

                  I took the bike out for a little ride, I say little because I got less then ten minutes ago and the temp gauge was already 3/4 across the dash and climbing.

                  There where a couple times where the bike just shot off like a rocket whilst the valve was pinned but other then that It’d get to about 6-8k (at a guess because remember I don’t have working clocks) then struggle to go any further.

                  S 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • Stevie WonderS Stevie Wonder

                    Since the first or second time I took my carb off to inspect the float valve when fuel was pissing out the overflow

                    I just took the bike out and I’m certain the powervalve is operating as should be and sat in the right place.

                    I do however have a sneaky feeling the air boot isn’t properly sealed, causing an air leak.

                    I’ve also found a little pin prick hole in the carb warmer hose that sends coolant into the carb.

                    I took the bike out for a little ride, I say little because I got less then ten minutes ago and the temp gauge was already 3/4 across the dash and climbing.

                    There where a couple times where the bike just shot off like a rocket whilst the valve was pinned but other then that It’d get to about 6-8k (at a guess because remember I don’t have working clocks) then struggle to go any further.

                    S Offline
                    S Offline
                    SpookDog
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #37

                    @Stevie-Wonder

                    Did you ever fix the leaky crank seal on the flywheel side, bud? Something still ain’t right if you’re getting that hot. I used to have temp troubles till I sorted out my jetting. Even my bike has been running cool during the worst of the heatwaves. While there is water in the radiator anyways 🙂

                    I’d be looking for any air leaks. Spray on either wd40 or (I use) solvent brake/clutch/carb cleaner. The revs will lower/settle down if it temporarily blocks an air leak...

                    Stevie WonderS 1 Reply Last reply
                    1
                    • S SpookDog

                      @Stevie-Wonder

                      Did you ever fix the leaky crank seal on the flywheel side, bud? Something still ain’t right if you’re getting that hot. I used to have temp troubles till I sorted out my jetting. Even my bike has been running cool during the worst of the heatwaves. While there is water in the radiator anyways 🙂

                      I’d be looking for any air leaks. Spray on either wd40 or (I use) solvent brake/clutch/carb cleaner. The revs will lower/settle down if it temporarily blocks an air leak...

                      Stevie WonderS Offline
                      Stevie WonderS Offline
                      Stevie Wonder
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #38

                      @SpookDog said in Trying to fix an issue:

                      @Stevie-Wonder

                      Did you ever fix the leaky crank seal on the flywheel side, bud? Something still ain’t right if you’re getting that hot. I used to have temp troubles till I sorted out my jetting. Even my bike has been running cool during the worst of the heatwaves. While there is water in the radiator anyways 🙂

                      I’d be looking for any air leaks. Spray on either wd40 or (I use) solvent brake/clutch/carb cleaner. The revs will lower/settle down if it temporarily blocks an air leak...

                      Nope, turned out there was no crank seal. The bike held and made good compression when I did a compression check.

                      To back this up when I crashed my bike the issue magically resolved itself and the bike suddenly ran beautifully, as good if not better then the day I got it.

                      S 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • Stevie WonderS Stevie Wonder

                        @SpookDog said in Trying to fix an issue:

                        @Stevie-Wonder

                        Did you ever fix the leaky crank seal on the flywheel side, bud? Something still ain’t right if you’re getting that hot. I used to have temp troubles till I sorted out my jetting. Even my bike has been running cool during the worst of the heatwaves. While there is water in the radiator anyways 🙂

                        I’d be looking for any air leaks. Spray on either wd40 or (I use) solvent brake/clutch/carb cleaner. The revs will lower/settle down if it temporarily blocks an air leak...

                        Nope, turned out there was no crank seal. The bike held and made good compression when I did a compression check.

                        To back this up when I crashed my bike the issue magically resolved itself and the bike suddenly ran beautifully, as good if not better then the day I got it.

                        S Offline
                        S Offline
                        SpookDog
                        wrote on last edited by SpookDog
                        #39

                        @Stevie-Wonder

                        The crank seal failing wouldn’t affect bore pressure. That’s purely between the piston&rings and the head. It would totally fuck with your mixture & running though. It’s such a cheap and easy fix it’d be silly to ignore it. I seem to remember you saying the revs settled down when you sprayed it before?...

                        Stevie WonderS 1 Reply Last reply
                        1
                        • S SpookDog

                          @Stevie-Wonder

                          The crank seal failing wouldn’t affect bore pressure. That’s purely between the piston&rings and the head. It would totally fuck with your mixture & running though. It’s such a cheap and easy fix it’d be silly to ignore it. I seem to remember you saying the revs settled down when you sprayed it before?...

                          Stevie WonderS Offline
                          Stevie WonderS Offline
                          Stevie Wonder
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #40

                          @SpookDog said in Trying to fix an issue:

                          @Stevie-Wonder

                          The crank seal failing wouldn’t affect bore pressure. That’s purely between the piston&rings and the head. It would totally fuck with your mixture & running though. It’s such a cheap and easy fix it’d be silly to ignore it. I seem to remember you saying the revs settled down when you sprayed it before?...

                          Nah, I sprayed a couple different flammable substances and it made no difference.

                          And ahh okay

                          S 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Stevie WonderS Stevie Wonder

                            @SpookDog said in Trying to fix an issue:

                            @Stevie-Wonder

                            The crank seal failing wouldn’t affect bore pressure. That’s purely between the piston&rings and the head. It would totally fuck with your mixture & running though. It’s such a cheap and easy fix it’d be silly to ignore it. I seem to remember you saying the revs settled down when you sprayed it before?...

                            Nah, I sprayed a couple different flammable substances and it made no difference.

                            And ahh okay

                            S Offline
                            S Offline
                            SpookDog
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #41

                            @Stevie-Wonder
                            My bad, no worries 🙂 ...

                            Stevie WonderS 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • S SpookDog

                              @Stevie-Wonder
                              My bad, no worries 🙂 ...

                              Stevie WonderS Offline
                              Stevie WonderS Offline
                              Stevie Wonder
                              wrote on last edited by Stevie Wonder
                              #42

                              @SpookDog
                              No worries man, I wish it was that, it’d be an easy fix then. But the fact the issue solved itself and ran perfect for a good month after I thought it was that rules out LH crank seal being the problem entirely

                              It’s worth noting I tried the old trick of running the bike with the choke on to richen things thinking this might cause stop the heat building and possibly make a difference to how the bike was running.
                              Unfortunately though this made no difference, temp still carried on soaring and still reluctant to go through the revs

                              The only place there could be an air leak is where the rubber boot joins the air box… this would then cause a lean running engine.
                              This leaves me some questions though…
                              I’m led to believe where the air boot meets the air box doesn’t have to be an air tight unit, is this right?

                              Being a water cooled engine doesn’t this mean as long as there’s sufficient coolant, your radiator and water pump hoses etc are all in good working then even if you had an engine that was run very very lean the heat would be managed?

                              Or would it be more a case that the cooling system isn’t up to the job to handle those conditions?

                              As it stands to sort this I have to

                              • Check there’s enough coolant (I can’t imagine having lost enough to make a difference however the carb warmer pipes are still prone to odd drip or two even when I plugged them so this could have built up over time, always worth checking).
                              • Check water pump is working
                              • take zorst off and fit new carb warmer coolant line (as one has a pin prick hole from being nipped by the hose clamp)
                              S markus.wM 2 Replies Last reply
                              0
                              • Stevie WonderS Stevie Wonder

                                @SpookDog
                                No worries man, I wish it was that, it’d be an easy fix then. But the fact the issue solved itself and ran perfect for a good month after I thought it was that rules out LH crank seal being the problem entirely

                                It’s worth noting I tried the old trick of running the bike with the choke on to richen things thinking this might cause stop the heat building and possibly make a difference to how the bike was running.
                                Unfortunately though this made no difference, temp still carried on soaring and still reluctant to go through the revs

                                The only place there could be an air leak is where the rubber boot joins the air box… this would then cause a lean running engine.
                                This leaves me some questions though…
                                I’m led to believe where the air boot meets the air box doesn’t have to be an air tight unit, is this right?

                                Being a water cooled engine doesn’t this mean as long as there’s sufficient coolant, your radiator and water pump hoses etc are all in good working then even if you had an engine that was run very very lean the heat would be managed?

                                Or would it be more a case that the cooling system isn’t up to the job to handle those conditions?

                                As it stands to sort this I have to

                                • Check there’s enough coolant (I can’t imagine having lost enough to make a difference however the carb warmer pipes are still prone to odd drip or two even when I plugged them so this could have built up over time, always worth checking).
                                • Check water pump is working
                                • take zorst off and fit new carb warmer coolant line (as one has a pin prick hole from being nipped by the hose clamp)
                                S Offline
                                S Offline
                                SpookDog
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #43

                                @Stevie-Wonder

                                Have you not checked the radiator level yet? I would check that first job. Second would be swapping out the thermostat. Running lean made my bike run ‘hotter’ but not that hot!
                                Also check for overflowed coolant at the expansion tank filler. Sticky crap below it on the chain guard and swing arm...

                                Stevie WonderS 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • CalumC Offline
                                  CalumC Offline
                                  Calum
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #44

                                  @Stevie-Wonder Air leaks before the carburettor are generally not an issue since you have a carburettor. By that I mean, the venturi effect created due to the air meters the fueling. Since you're only running at normal atmospheric pressures you can rule this out.

                                  With regards to coolant and engine temp, if it's running so lean that the engine detonates then the temperature will spike before/during it seizes. By the time the temperature moves it'll already been too late. You have to keep an ear out for detonation in that case.

                                  Always Originate, Never Pirate!

                                  markus.wM 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Stevie WonderS Stevie Wonder

                                    @SpookDog
                                    No worries man, I wish it was that, it’d be an easy fix then. But the fact the issue solved itself and ran perfect for a good month after I thought it was that rules out LH crank seal being the problem entirely

                                    It’s worth noting I tried the old trick of running the bike with the choke on to richen things thinking this might cause stop the heat building and possibly make a difference to how the bike was running.
                                    Unfortunately though this made no difference, temp still carried on soaring and still reluctant to go through the revs

                                    The only place there could be an air leak is where the rubber boot joins the air box… this would then cause a lean running engine.
                                    This leaves me some questions though…
                                    I’m led to believe where the air boot meets the air box doesn’t have to be an air tight unit, is this right?

                                    Being a water cooled engine doesn’t this mean as long as there’s sufficient coolant, your radiator and water pump hoses etc are all in good working then even if you had an engine that was run very very lean the heat would be managed?

                                    Or would it be more a case that the cooling system isn’t up to the job to handle those conditions?

                                    As it stands to sort this I have to

                                    • Check there’s enough coolant (I can’t imagine having lost enough to make a difference however the carb warmer pipes are still prone to odd drip or two even when I plugged them so this could have built up over time, always worth checking).
                                    • Check water pump is working
                                    • take zorst off and fit new carb warmer coolant line (as one has a pin prick hole from being nipped by the hose clamp)
                                    markus.wM Offline
                                    markus.wM Offline
                                    markus.w
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #45

                                    @Stevie-Wonder a lean condition seriously affects the temperature. A main jet 1 or 2 sizes too small can easily make a difference of 20 degrees so an air leak caused by a split rubber can be catastrophic.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • CalumC Calum

                                      @Stevie-Wonder Air leaks before the carburettor are generally not an issue since you have a carburettor. By that I mean, the venturi effect created due to the air meters the fueling. Since you're only running at normal atmospheric pressures you can rule this out.

                                      With regards to coolant and engine temp, if it's running so lean that the engine detonates then the temperature will spike before/during it seizes. By the time the temperature moves it'll already been too late. You have to keep an ear out for detonation in that case.

                                      markus.wM Offline
                                      markus.wM Offline
                                      markus.w
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #46

                                      @Calum ah yes, before the carb won't make much difference. My airbox is deleted and have a ram air pod filter. Just up couple of sizes on the jets. Some people run no air filter.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • Stevie WonderS Offline
                                        Stevie WonderS Offline
                                        Stevie Wonder
                                        wrote on last edited by Stevie Wonder
                                        #47

                                        Okay wicked, so we can rule out the rubber boot to the air box not being airtight as not being an issue.

                                        Also the jetting in the carb is the exact same as it’s always been since I’ve had it so jetting shouldn’t be an issue, the only thing that could’ve changed slightly is the air screw.

                                        I’ll keep an ear out for detonation as that’ll give an indicator to wether it’s the engine running lean being the problem or it just being a cooling problem.

                                        S 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • Stevie WonderS Stevie Wonder

                                          Okay wicked, so we can rule out the rubber boot to the air box not being airtight as not being an issue.

                                          Also the jetting in the carb is the exact same as it’s always been since I’ve had it so jetting shouldn’t be an issue, the only thing that could’ve changed slightly is the air screw.

                                          I’ll keep an ear out for detonation as that’ll give an indicator to wether it’s the engine running lean being the problem or it just being a cooling problem.

                                          S Offline
                                          S Offline
                                          SpookDog
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #48

                                          @Stevie-Wonder
                                          Did you check the radiator coolant level?...

                                          Stevie WonderS 1 Reply Last reply
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