So Close!...
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@Calum
Slide hammer was my next plan of attack. Every other one I’ve seen (and the 1or2 I’ve done) have had the centre tube/spacer move enough to get at the bearings from inside, from the opposite side. So you can hit the centre race and tap them out…
I don’t get why the dtr one is so ‘tight’?… -
Nobody ever done the bearings on dtr125 wheels? I know that this forum doesn’t get the kinda foot traffic that it used to, but nobody?…
Damn! Maybe that old Gypsy Woman was right?
…@SpookDog The central spacer is often a bit of a PITA on bike wheel bearings; kneeling down with the wheel flat on the ground in front of you (with the disc rotor facing upwards) try pulling the punch/screwdriver etc towards you whilst hitting it. This pushes the punch end away from you and helps it get some purchase on the bearing's inner race. Also if the bearings are quite old it may be the case that the spacer has seized to the inner race. Had a few painful fingers over the years when the punch has slipped during hammering them out but never been in a situation where I plain couldn't punch them out.
Other points raised: It's normal for the wheel spindle clamp on the fork slider to be 5-10mm away from the outer face of the speedo drive with the front end assembled. IIRC I once bought a NOS spindle and even that produced some "up and down" wheel activity during tightening so I wouldn't worry.
A method I've always used to guarantee front end alignment (assuming your headrace bearings are correctly adjusted) is to install the forks/front wheel in the bike, fully tighten the front wheel spindle but don't tighten the spindle clamp. Leave the bottom yoke pinch bolts loose and tighten the ones on the top yoke. Then loosen the steering stem top nut just enough to allow the top yoke to rotate on the stem. Take the bike off the workstand etc., hold the front brake on and bounce the front end up and down 10-20 times to get the forks parallel with one another, then gently rest it on the side stand (try not to turn the steering at all when you do this). Then tighten the steering stem nut (which affects headrace bearing adjustment) followed by the bottom yoke pinch bolts, then the wheel spindle clamp last thing. The spindle clamp is there on bikes with long-travel suspension because even a slight variation in the alignment of the fork legs can produce stiction through their full travel; it allows the RH fork leg to "float" during this process so the forks/yokes/wheel can self-align before everything is tightened.
The spring rate controls the suspension stiffness so running the forks with one blown seal wouldn't be enough to bend them in use. One of the bike mags in the 90s posted up some pictures of two guys doing a two-up stoppie on a stock DTR and that didn't bend the forks; 41mm stanchions are only 2mm smaller than the pre-USD GSX-R1100 of the day.
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@SpookDog The central spacer is often a bit of a PITA on bike wheel bearings; kneeling down with the wheel flat on the ground in front of you (with the disc rotor facing upwards) try pulling the punch/screwdriver etc towards you whilst hitting it. This pushes the punch end away from you and helps it get some purchase on the bearing's inner race. Also if the bearings are quite old it may be the case that the spacer has seized to the inner race. Had a few painful fingers over the years when the punch has slipped during hammering them out but never been in a situation where I plain couldn't punch them out.
Other points raised: It's normal for the wheel spindle clamp on the fork slider to be 5-10mm away from the outer face of the speedo drive with the front end assembled. IIRC I once bought a NOS spindle and even that produced some "up and down" wheel activity during tightening so I wouldn't worry.
A method I've always used to guarantee front end alignment (assuming your headrace bearings are correctly adjusted) is to install the forks/front wheel in the bike, fully tighten the front wheel spindle but don't tighten the spindle clamp. Leave the bottom yoke pinch bolts loose and tighten the ones on the top yoke. Then loosen the steering stem top nut just enough to allow the top yoke to rotate on the stem. Take the bike off the workstand etc., hold the front brake on and bounce the front end up and down 10-20 times to get the forks parallel with one another, then gently rest it on the side stand (try not to turn the steering at all when you do this). Then tighten the steering stem nut (which affects headrace bearing adjustment) followed by the bottom yoke pinch bolts, then the wheel spindle clamp last thing. The spindle clamp is there on bikes with long-travel suspension because even a slight variation in the alignment of the fork legs can produce stiction through their full travel; it allows the RH fork leg to "float" during this process so the forks/yokes/wheel can self-align before everything is tightened.
The spring rate controls the suspension stiffness so running the forks with one blown seal wouldn't be enough to bend them in use. One of the bike mags in the 90s posted up some pictures of two guys doing a two-up stoppie on a stock DTR and that didn't bend the forks; 41mm stanchions are only 2mm smaller than the pre-USD GSX-R1100 of the day.
Cheers bud, I’ve never managed to find an informative method on correct fork assembling. Reverse of disassembly really doesn’t tell me shit!
I get the clamp side fork having to be able to free travel, and I get stiction or binding if trying to change the gap between clamp and speedo-drive. But the affect that my spindle(s) has on the wheel can’t be normal. I’ve got a new one ordered and hope it helps with alignment. Otherwise I’m gonna have to remove the headstock out bearing races and reseat them to be sure they’re proper, cause the way it stands I can’t take my hands off the bars and coast…The inner spacer on the front wheel moves freely, as in the same amount all the way round. It’s just that it’s not even moving a whole Mil to any side. I was hoping to find whether this is normal or just another one of ‘my problems’
Whether I need to source some kind of ‘expanding drift’ that clamps inside?…. -
Cheers bud, I’ve never managed to find an informative method on correct fork assembling. Reverse of disassembly really doesn’t tell me shit!
I get the clamp side fork having to be able to free travel, and I get stiction or binding if trying to change the gap between clamp and speedo-drive. But the affect that my spindle(s) has on the wheel can’t be normal. I’ve got a new one ordered and hope it helps with alignment. Otherwise I’m gonna have to remove the headstock out bearing races and reseat them to be sure they’re proper, cause the way it stands I can’t take my hands off the bars and coast…The inner spacer on the front wheel moves freely, as in the same amount all the way round. It’s just that it’s not even moving a whole Mil to any side. I was hoping to find whether this is normal or just another one of ‘my problems’
Whether I need to source some kind of ‘expanding drift’ that clamps inside?….@SpookDog No worries, even people in the motorcycle trade have trouble getting their heads around the way off-road bikes fit together. Suspension, chain adjustment, chain guides (lots of people take these off because it "spoils the look of the bike", then adjust the chain too tight), all very different to sticking an R1 on the paddock stand. I once worked for a shop in the West Country and the owner and workshop foreman would sometimes spend over an hour arguing because the foreman had adjusted CRM250 etc chains to the same tension as sportsbikes with less than half the travel. And he wouldn't accept the fact that once the suspension starts to work it tightens the chain and knackers the bearing behind the front sprocket. A lot of the customers were greenlaning guys but he just wanted to be right!
Taking a look at the headrace bearings is a good shout, All Balls make a taper roller upgrade kit which is very good and you could fit a grease nipple whilst it's apart. You will need to seal the slot on the stem which the headstock steering lock uses though meaning you can only use the one on the ignition switch but I considered this a fair trade-off for perfect headstock bearings forever. I just used heatshrink tube and cable ties; don't use gaffa tape as the grease will break down the glue over time and you'll end up with all the grease coming out the bottom of the stem rather than forcing its way through the bearings and seals.
A blind bearing extractor might be your best option for the wheel bearings. I bought one of these sets and the smallest size also worked on the needle roller bearings when I did a bottom end rebuild, including the one on the clutch arm:
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@SpookDog No worries, even people in the motorcycle trade have trouble getting their heads around the way off-road bikes fit together. Suspension, chain adjustment, chain guides (lots of people take these off because it "spoils the look of the bike", then adjust the chain too tight), all very different to sticking an R1 on the paddock stand. I once worked for a shop in the West Country and the owner and workshop foreman would sometimes spend over an hour arguing because the foreman had adjusted CRM250 etc chains to the same tension as sportsbikes with less than half the travel. And he wouldn't accept the fact that once the suspension starts to work it tightens the chain and knackers the bearing behind the front sprocket. A lot of the customers were greenlaning guys but he just wanted to be right!
Taking a look at the headrace bearings is a good shout, All Balls make a taper roller upgrade kit which is very good and you could fit a grease nipple whilst it's apart. You will need to seal the slot on the stem which the headstock steering lock uses though meaning you can only use the one on the ignition switch but I considered this a fair trade-off for perfect headstock bearings forever. I just used heatshrink tube and cable ties; don't use gaffa tape as the grease will break down the glue over time and you'll end up with all the grease coming out the bottom of the stem rather than forcing its way through the bearings and seals.
A blind bearing extractor might be your best option for the wheel bearings. I bought one of these sets and the smallest size also worked on the needle roller bearings when I did a bottom end rebuild, including the one on the clutch arm:
I got top and bottom tapers on there at the moment. I just didn’t give the races as much attention as I could of when I drifted them into the headstock. I need to fit a bottom seal-washer. I didn’t have one at the time I fitted them. I only ‘eyeballed’ the tension as well. I’m gonna wait till the new spindle arrives and see if there’s improvements…
I do have a blind puller kit I got from eBay for under £20 An OK bit of kit. Cheers for the feedback bud…
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@SpookDog No worries, even people in the motorcycle trade have trouble getting their heads around the way off-road bikes fit together. Suspension, chain adjustment, chain guides (lots of people take these off because it "spoils the look of the bike", then adjust the chain too tight), all very different to sticking an R1 on the paddock stand. I once worked for a shop in the West Country and the owner and workshop foreman would sometimes spend over an hour arguing because the foreman had adjusted CRM250 etc chains to the same tension as sportsbikes with less than half the travel. And he wouldn't accept the fact that once the suspension starts to work it tightens the chain and knackers the bearing behind the front sprocket. A lot of the customers were greenlaning guys but he just wanted to be right!
Taking a look at the headrace bearings is a good shout, All Balls make a taper roller upgrade kit which is very good and you could fit a grease nipple whilst it's apart. You will need to seal the slot on the stem which the headstock steering lock uses though meaning you can only use the one on the ignition switch but I considered this a fair trade-off for perfect headstock bearings forever. I just used heatshrink tube and cable ties; don't use gaffa tape as the grease will break down the glue over time and you'll end up with all the grease coming out the bottom of the stem rather than forcing its way through the bearings and seals.
A blind bearing extractor might be your best option for the wheel bearings. I bought one of these sets and the smallest size also worked on the needle roller bearings when I did a bottom end rebuild, including the one on the clutch arm:
Hey bud! Just an aside, did you ever sell your sweet 93 Dtr? Or did things get better and you’re riding again? Weather has been sweet (apart from the blustery winds) the last couple days
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Hey bud! Just an aside, did you ever sell your sweet 93 Dtr? Or did things get better and you’re riding again? Weather has been sweet (apart from the blustery winds) the last couple days
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Hey bud! Just an aside, did you ever sell your sweet 93 Dtr? Or did things get better and you’re riding again? Weather has been sweet (apart from the blustery winds) the last couple days
…@SpookDog Yes I sold the '93 just after Christmas and my original unrestored '98 3NC went a couple of weeks ago. I have ridden both since recovering from my injuries, just to make sure they were both running OK before selling them. Now trying to empty the house so I can have a holiday; here's the rebuilt wheelset I listed today:
Many thanks for your concern buddy, I'm nearly 50 so feel very lucky to have made pretty much a full recovery. Been getting back to full fitness over the winter with walking, cycling, upper body stuff etc and did a pretty cool MTB ride up on the Ox Drove (byway from Compton Abbas Airfield/Win Green to Sixpenny Handley) the other day. This felt pretty special as the last time I was there was on a DTR in October 2021. Here's my 2002 Specialized Epic with Brain rear suspension; most of the time it's a hardtail which helps on tarmac/hills but the rear shock can tell the difference between the rider pedalling and the rear wheel hitting a bump and starts working all on its own as soon as you get onto the trails. I rebuilt the shock over the winter (which nearly made my head explode) and so far all is well!
I'll be hanging around on here though as I like helping people out. And being helped; the other week @OllieDTR came and bought some bits off me, we were talking about headstock bearings and he said he put his bottom yoke in the freezer overnight and heated the lower bearing and it dropped straight on! All the engine bearings I fitted last summer doing that in reverse and I never thought of doing that on headstock bearings.
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@SpookDog Yes I sold the '93 just after Christmas and my original unrestored '98 3NC went a couple of weeks ago. I have ridden both since recovering from my injuries, just to make sure they were both running OK before selling them. Now trying to empty the house so I can have a holiday; here's the rebuilt wheelset I listed today:
Many thanks for your concern buddy, I'm nearly 50 so feel very lucky to have made pretty much a full recovery. Been getting back to full fitness over the winter with walking, cycling, upper body stuff etc and did a pretty cool MTB ride up on the Ox Drove (byway from Compton Abbas Airfield/Win Green to Sixpenny Handley) the other day. This felt pretty special as the last time I was there was on a DTR in October 2021. Here's my 2002 Specialized Epic with Brain rear suspension; most of the time it's a hardtail which helps on tarmac/hills but the rear shock can tell the difference between the rider pedalling and the rear wheel hitting a bump and starts working all on its own as soon as you get onto the trails. I rebuilt the shock over the winter (which nearly made my head explode) and so far all is well!
I'll be hanging around on here though as I like helping people out. And being helped; the other week @OllieDTR came and bought some bits off me, we were talking about headstock bearings and he said he put his bottom yoke in the freezer overnight and heated the lower bearing and it dropped straight on! All the engine bearings I fitted last summer doing that in reverse and I never thought of doing that on headstock bearings.
Lovely wheels you’ve got listed!
I could spend all the house savings on the bits you’ve got listed but the mrs wouldn’t be happy
Glad you’re out and about and recovered now and still staying on the forum and around DTs!
I’ll have to come show you my DT when I’ve finished it but slow process at the moment as I’ve just picked up a RM125 for some offroad fun for the time being.Only problem with these bikes as they like to go through pistons as being 40bhp 125 but I’ve invested in dial bore gauge, micrometer and proper honing tools for the barrel so I can a very accurate measurement.
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Lovely wheels you’ve got listed!
I could spend all the house savings on the bits you’ve got listed but the mrs wouldn’t be happy
Glad you’re out and about and recovered now and still staying on the forum and around DTs!
I’ll have to come show you my DT when I’ve finished it but slow process at the moment as I’ve just picked up a RM125 for some offroad fun for the time being.Only problem with these bikes as they like to go through pistons as being 40bhp 125 but I’ve invested in dial bore gauge, micrometer and proper honing tools for the barrel so I can a very accurate measurement.
@OllieDTR All sounds good bud, would be cool to see that and thank you
What year is your RM? I had an '89 (the last one they made with conventional forks before the 1st generation USDs appeared) in about 1991, loved it but had to sell it to get my 1st ever DTR and take my bike test! Sad day in some ways but the DTR gave me freedom and personal transport and you can't put a price on that when you're 17.
I think the RMs went back to conventional forks in about 1996 and apparently the DR-Z400 front end is pretty much the same as a '96 RM250. Check out "Airtime" Guy Cooper, 1990 was the year he won the US National 125cc MX Championship with a Suzuki factory ride after years of being a struggling privateer. Had his van and all his bikes stolen at a race in 1984 (it later transpired the local sheriff was in on the whole operation and was nicking cars/bikes on the side) but kept on in there and always had time/advice for the fans. I watched a mud race once and in the post-race interview he said in mud you have to push on the bike to get traction, in sand you have to pull on the bike to keep the front end from digging in, genius:
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@SpookDog Yes I sold the '93 just after Christmas and my original unrestored '98 3NC went a couple of weeks ago. I have ridden both since recovering from my injuries, just to make sure they were both running OK before selling them. Now trying to empty the house so I can have a holiday; here's the rebuilt wheelset I listed today:
Many thanks for your concern buddy, I'm nearly 50 so feel very lucky to have made pretty much a full recovery. Been getting back to full fitness over the winter with walking, cycling, upper body stuff etc and did a pretty cool MTB ride up on the Ox Drove (byway from Compton Abbas Airfield/Win Green to Sixpenny Handley) the other day. This felt pretty special as the last time I was there was on a DTR in October 2021. Here's my 2002 Specialized Epic with Brain rear suspension; most of the time it's a hardtail which helps on tarmac/hills but the rear shock can tell the difference between the rider pedalling and the rear wheel hitting a bump and starts working all on its own as soon as you get onto the trails. I rebuilt the shock over the winter (which nearly made my head explode) and so far all is well!
I'll be hanging around on here though as I like helping people out. And being helped; the other week @OllieDTR came and bought some bits off me, we were talking about headstock bearings and he said he put his bottom yoke in the freezer overnight and heated the lower bearing and it dropped straight on! All the engine bearings I fitted last summer doing that in reverse and I never thought of doing that on headstock bearings.
OMG why did i not think of the freezer?! So many applications! Oh well, at least I know now!…
I think it works out £150 to get a wheel built with new rim and stainless spokes, so £200 a wheel is a really good price considering hub, bearings and tyres, ect!
That being said I’ll give you £300 for both! …Being 53 this month is a strange experience, my body and my mentality are totally different ages!
I feel for ya! But that MB sounds sweet, and I recon you’re doing alright if you can pedal around Cranbourne Chase bud! … -
OMG why did i not think of the freezer?! So many applications! Oh well, at least I know now!…
I think it works out £150 to get a wheel built with new rim and stainless spokes, so £200 a wheel is a really good price considering hub, bearings and tyres, ect!
That being said I’ll give you £300 for both! …Being 53 this month is a strange experience, my body and my mentality are totally different ages!
I feel for ya! But that MB sounds sweet, and I recon you’re doing alright if you can pedal around Cranbourne Chase bud! … -
Wildly off topic but…
It’s a Ducati 125cc from the early 60’s. They should be making them today!…
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New front spindle turned up today. Just fitted it and it went in so straight and true that it was a thing of beauty
No weird bind & twist as it was torqued up.
test ride tomorrow
️It’s made a hell of a difference! It’s tracking better than I’ve ever had it before, confidence inspiring. Well chuffed!…
The embarrassing thing is I didn’t realise how bad it was affecting the ride. I thought of the rear wheel alignment, tyre balance and shock movement/condition before I even stumbled across the front spindle!
A lot of the problems I’ve had I didn’t even realise I had at first. This is the first bike I’ve ridden since the early 90’s! I’ve never ridden a good one, so I wasn’t aware of what was bad or wrong 🥴 Hell of a learning curve, but very satisfying when you get there… -
Wildly off topic but…
It’s a Ducati 125cc from the early 60’s. They should be making them today!…
@SpookDog Is that a 4-cylinder DOHC 125? Must rev to the moon! If you like that kind of thing check out Allen Millyard on YouTube, he built a Mike Hailwood Honda six replica by chopping up two Yamaha FZR250 engines to make a 375cc six:
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@SpookDog Is that a 4-cylinder DOHC 125? Must rev to the moon! If you like that kind of thing check out Allen Millyard on YouTube, he built a Mike Hailwood Honda six replica by chopping up two Yamaha FZR250 engines to make a 375cc six:
It’s so sweet, no? I can’t remember the proper numbers but I think it’s 22~24bhp and 120mph!! And built in the early 1960’s…
If it’s who I’m thinking of, then that man was truly inspired, the imagination was not the limit with him!…
I’m only a bit familiar with his work, my old mate ‘Hairy Steve’ turned me onto his builds. He was a Z1000 nut back in the day , was into welded cranks and nitrous! Also loved his Mikuni flatslides for some reason! … -
It’s so sweet, no? I can’t remember the proper numbers but I think it’s 22~24bhp and 120mph!! And built in the early 1960’s…
If it’s who I’m thinking of, then that man was truly inspired, the imagination was not the limit with him!…
I’m only a bit familiar with his work, my old mate ‘Hairy Steve’ turned me onto his builds. He was a Z1000 nut back in the day , was into welded cranks and nitrous! Also loved his Mikuni flatslides for some reason! …I just watched a big chunk of it and I find it hard to believe some of it! The man must be a functioning acid casualty! Seriously bends the laws of possibility. I’m guessing it’s the same bloke who did the six cylinders stuff that my bud enthused about. I have maximum respect for the man
seriously…Edit: just finished watching it, the man is seriously talented. Piss off Henry Cole and put this bloke on the box!
I’ve just got to find the crankshaft clip now!
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I just watched a big chunk of it and I find it hard to believe some of it! The man must be a functioning acid casualty! Seriously bends the laws of possibility. I’m guessing it’s the same bloke who did the six cylinders stuff that my bud enthused about. I have maximum respect for the man
seriously…Edit: just finished watching it, the man is seriously talented. Piss off Henry Cole and put this bloke on the box!
I’ve just got to find the crankshaft clip now!
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OMF! I just watched the crank build! That motor is like jewellery. Ta for the link, I can’t believe I saw this till now…
Though I’d give it a jet wash in celebration of the weather…
Nobody is going to call it pretty, but for a 35 year old workaday mongrel it looks OK, I think anyways…
It’s nice to be able to go over 50 without having to fight the bike. Since fitting the new front spindle it tracks straight and true even with hands off the bars. It doesn’t ‘dip & tuck’ the front end when cornering anymore either. I’m embarrassed it took me so long to get to the crux of the problem. In my defence nothing is straightforward with this basket case. I will get it properly righteous before the end though. I’m nothing if not stubborn
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