Hello all
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Have you tried running the bike with the PV side cover off to see if it works at all while running? 2004 was a new wiring generation. I don’t know if they even cycle at key-turn?…
Have you tried running the bike with the PV side cover off to see if it works at all while running? 2004 was a new wiring generation. I don’t know if they even cycle at key-turn?…
I have run it with the servo plugged in but no cables just watching the pulley and no movement through the rev range However the earlier post which says that the later ones are very DC dependant is interesting, I know the battery is OK but I haven't checked for a 12v supply going into the CDI (principally as I dont know which wire is the supply) but I have noticed a broken red wire in the loom which could be a supply ? The wiring harness is generally not in very good shape so it could or indeed probably be the problem rather than the CDI
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Yes sorry, and you've no way to test the CDI on your sons loom as presumably you have the later model DT. I will be surprised if both CDIs are broken. I made the mistake of selling my DTRE CDI after I bought a Zeeltronic, consequently it was then a nightmare trying to understand if the Zeel was faulty or if there is an issue with something else, so I promptly bought another CDI at great expense to myself.
All I can suggest is obtaining a known-working CDI to rule it out. That's all I know about the CDI.
But as I say, I'd be surprised if it's the CDI and it's more likely going to be something far simpler. Even down to something like a fuse. I know on my Cagiva, there is an inline fuse specifically for the powervalve, but as far as I remember the DTRE only has a single fuse block on the battery for the entire bike, worth checking though. And as you've alluded to, signal wires could be damaged and/or bad earths. The CDI on DTRE specifically is restricted on the PV to be retarded at RPMs above 10k and therefore there is often a Green/Black wire that will be earthed to the frame to enable "full power".
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Have you tried running the bike with the PV side cover off to see if it works at all while running? 2004 was a new wiring generation. I don’t know if they even cycle at key-turn?…
I have run it with the servo plugged in but no cables just watching the pulley and no movement through the rev range However the earlier post which says that the later ones are very DC dependant is interesting, I know the battery is OK but I haven't checked for a 12v supply going into the CDI (principally as I dont know which wire is the supply) but I have noticed a broken red wire in the loom which could be a supply ? The wiring harness is generally not in very good shape so it could or indeed probably be the problem rather than the CDI
Broken Red sounds suspicious!
The chances of 2 different CDI units having the same fault is astronomical! I’d be looking at the loom and DC from battery to PV.
My early 88 bike had a broken red wire at one of the connector blocks that go to the ignition-key. It was smooshed up and still touching, when I fixed it the power valve properly came to life. I never realised how ‘slow’ it was before. I had no ‘benchmark’…If the PV isn’t moving at all it definitely sounds like a 12V DC issue. Mend that wire!
…If the horn and indicators work without the engine running the battery & fuse is good…
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Well had another round with the Deet from hell, I was following a wiring diagram from the internet but it looked OK it showed 2 x 6 wire connectors and 1 x 4 way connectors going into the CDI which is what mine has anyway what I found was there is a 12v feed going into the CDI on ignition live through the black blue wire from the servo connector there is also a 12v feed comes from the black red wire coming from the alternator when the engine is running, also found out my new old CDI doesn't spark when encouraged so that is totally useless and obviously its going back the other thing I found was that it seems there is no volts coming out of the alternator with the engine running so probably a dud stator but still to pull the flywheel to investigate that one.Oh and the red wire, this best I can tell was a live supply to an optional alarm which I dont have so I have blanked it off
Anyhoo to summarise I have a replacement duff CDI my original CDI which may or may not be any good servo wise but it does make sparks unlike its replacement - an alternator that makes no volts and a PV servo which I know works but does not on this bike -
I bought an NSR 125 a few years ago sight unseen from evilbay, jesus what a mess when I collected it obvious 17 yr old negligence - every consumable on the bike was worn to a depressing degree tyres, brakes, chain, sprockets, air filter, piston, rings, battery,small end bearing, fork seals. along with needing a repaint and decals I bought it for something to tinker with over winter and also for the satisfaction of saving a smoker from the scrap heap (where it certainly was heading if I hadn't stepped in) so when it was Mot tested and finished I stuck it back on e bay and I think I ended up 80 quid in front on the deal. The deet is a similar project I dont really want a DT 125 as a serious bike but it is certainly worth saving just its a complete bugger and resisting my helping it
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Lovely, have you any photos of the NSR?
The thing I'll say about the DT, I've had mine nearly 13+ years and it's literally never let me down. I've not daily'd it for a few years and it's now a weekend warrior, with the occasional trip to work if I cannot be bothered to cycle, but it's a dependable little bike. Mine got stolen and wrecked beyond recognition. The situation at the time meant I didn't have money for a new bike, but always fancied a supermoto so I ended up with a modified DTR. But dayum, in original condition these days, the bikes sell for a pretty penny.
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Well had another round with the Deet from hell, I was following a wiring diagram from the internet but it looked OK it showed 2 x 6 wire connectors and 1 x 4 way connectors going into the CDI which is what mine has anyway what I found was there is a 12v feed going into the CDI on ignition live through the black blue wire from the servo connector there is also a 12v feed comes from the black red wire coming from the alternator when the engine is running, also found out my new old CDI doesn't spark when encouraged so that is totally useless and obviously its going back the other thing I found was that it seems there is no volts coming out of the alternator with the engine running so probably a dud stator but still to pull the flywheel to investigate that one.Oh and the red wire, this best I can tell was a live supply to an optional alarm which I dont have so I have blanked it off
Anyhoo to summarise I have a replacement duff CDI my original CDI which may or may not be any good servo wise but it does make sparks unlike its replacement - an alternator that makes no volts and a PV servo which I know works but does not on this bikeIt wouldn’t be running if it wasn’t putting something out.
I’m guessing that the lights work when you turn the key? Indicators, horn Yada-Yada?
The battery is charging?…Bitch about the CDI!
If there’s a duff wire from the stator it could be a dry solder or broken wire.
Flywheel pullers are cheap enough. Just make sure you get the proper thread sided one! I don’t know if it’s left or right. Callum will prolly know …I ended up buying both! 🫤 …
PS please let us know about the rest of the electrics!!
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I had a transit battery jump leaded to it and with the engine running it was showing 12.6v but no increase with revs so I disconnected the transit battery and went back to the deet one alone which was now at 11.7v and again no voltage increase with revs, need to see if there is anything coming out of the alternator phase wires next (I suspect not) if thats the case then the stator is goosed or if there is then the rectifier/reg is done for - will see what tomorrow brings if I have a spare hour
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I had a transit battery jump leaded to it and with the engine running it was showing 12.6v but no increase with revs so I disconnected the transit battery and went back to the deet one alone which was now at 11.7v and again no voltage increase with revs, need to see if there is anything coming out of the alternator phase wires next (I suspect not) if thats the case then the stator is goosed or if there is then the rectifier/reg is done for - will see what tomorrow brings if I have a spare hour
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Making some progress I think, I checked the phase wires from the alternator and got 20v, 30v and zero!!!!!! thats a phase down then, so I took off the rotor (no thread for an extractor but 3 M8 jacking holes, I used one of these and managed to miss the windings gave it a clunk with a hammer and it fell off on the floor. Here's where it gets interesting, instead of a 12 segment plus HT stator there is a 6 segment plus HT also no sign of any burnt windings
[img]https://i.imgur.com/etmh7JU.jpg[/img]Must be a break in continuity between alternator and rectifier then I think so I start to have a dig in the wires and FFS!!!!
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ydrP70S.jpg[/img]So an hour or so later shrink wrappery and solder
[img]https://i.imgur.com/jLWlxqx.jpg[/img]Brilliant all done you might think, well errr not so the diagram shows that there should be a further wire coming from the alternator up to the CDI (green/blue) and I have it making the journey from the multi plug to the CDI but not coming from the alternator - BUGGER!!!!!
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ct10W8V.jpg[/img]
So here's my thoughts, this is an earlier engine (no electric start no sprag clutch no hole in the cases for a starter motor) with an earlier engine which due to the lack of I assume signal wire to the CDI is not compatible with the CDI I have, my options are as far as I can see fit a later model rotor and stator. graft an earlier model CDI (possibly an earlier wiring harness?) Break the bugger and cut my losses
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Making some progress I think, I checked the phase wires from the alternator and got 20v, 30v and zero!!!!!! thats a phase down then, so I took off the rotor (no thread for an extractor but 3 M8 jacking holes, I used one of these and managed to miss the windings gave it a clunk with a hammer and it fell off on the floor. Here's where it gets interesting, instead of a 12 segment plus HT stator there is a 6 segment plus HT also no sign of any burnt windings
[img]https://i.imgur.com/etmh7JU.jpg[/img]Must be a break in continuity between alternator and rectifier then I think so I start to have a dig in the wires and FFS!!!!
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ydrP70S.jpg[/img]So an hour or so later shrink wrappery and solder
[img]https://i.imgur.com/jLWlxqx.jpg[/img]Brilliant all done you might think, well errr not so the diagram shows that there should be a further wire coming from the alternator up to the CDI (green/blue) and I have it making the journey from the multi plug to the CDI but not coming from the alternator - BUGGER!!!!!
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ct10W8V.jpg[/img]
So here's my thoughts, this is an earlier engine (no electric start no sprag clutch no hole in the cases for a starter motor) with an earlier engine which due to the lack of I assume signal wire to the CDI is not compatible with the CDI I have, my options are as far as I can see fit a later model rotor and stator. graft an earlier model CDI (possibly an earlier wiring harness?) Break the bugger and cut my losses
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@mcludd Yes, this bike seems to have been butchered around. That stator is not for that type of ignition system.
I cannot comment on whether "it'll work" or not, however as you've pointed out, it's not the correct CDI for the year and these things can be difficult to diagnose when it is all a mishmash and without official Yamaha knowledge.
What I have done in the past is swapped out the entire ignition system to match compatibility. I ran an earlier engine, swapped out the crank/flywheel and stator together to use a newer ignition system. Since that means splitting the cases, it's involved, that's okay I was rebuilding the engine, had the cases already split deciding what to do. It involved plenty of research before hand chatting to @scrimsmustang to understand the picture.
If it were me, I'd be looking to restore the original CDI, or better still get an Ignitech or Zeeltronic as the CDIs I've linked you to can be terribly restrictive.
One of those CDIs should be the one you need, I don't know for certain you'll have to do some digging around.
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@mcludd Yes, this bike seems to have been butchered around. That stator is not for that type of ignition system.
I cannot comment on whether "it'll work" or not, however as you've pointed out, it's not the correct CDI for the year and these things can be difficult to diagnose when it is all a mishmash and without official Yamaha knowledge.
What I have done in the past is swapped out the entire ignition system to match compatibility. I ran an earlier engine, swapped out the crank/flywheel and stator together to use a newer ignition system. Since that means splitting the cases, it's involved, that's okay I was rebuilding the engine, had the cases already split deciding what to do. It involved plenty of research before hand chatting to @scrimsmustang to understand the picture.
If it were me, I'd be looking to restore the original CDI, or better still get an Ignitech or Zeeltronic as the CDIs I've linked you to can be terribly restrictive.
One of those CDIs should be the one you need, I don't know for certain you'll have to do some digging around.
There is a place in France (ask hotshot) that sells a conical ‘shim’ that fits over a non RE crank that will make it accept the back to front rotor. All you’d need then is an ally side casing (which I have a spare) and an RE stator & rotor …
That should make it plug and play again!…
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There is a place in France (ask hotshot) that sells a conical ‘shim’ that fits over a non RE crank that will make it accept the back to front rotor. All you’d need then is an ally side casing (which I have a spare) and an RE stator & rotor …
That should make it plug and play again!…
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I don’t see any way that a late RE loom will mesh with an early CDI. I thought it had the original RE motor in it with the reversed rotor and coils bolted to the side casing…
