So Close!...
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I still need a gudgeon pin for an Athena 170 piston. It’s 16mm x 56mm. The only one I can find is 16 x 57mm…
If anyone has put a new piston in their Athena kit and still has the old pin please let me know. I can’t do any more to my build till I get one
…Cheers Peeps!…
wrote on 26 Nov 2023, 13:48 last edited by@SpookDog said in So Close!...:
I still need a gudgeon pin for an Athena 170 piston. It’s 16mm x 56mm. The only one I can find is 16 x 57mm…
If anyone has put a new piston in their Athena kit and still has the old pin please let me know. I can’t do any more to my build till I get one
…Cheers Peeps!…
Why don't you take the 16x57 and machine off 0.5mm from each side?
I remember the pin from the kit has a little play when installed with the circlips,maybe there is space for that 1mm. -
@SpookDog I only recently threw away an Athena 170 gudgeon pin that only saw a few hundred miles on it
wrote on 26 Nov 2023, 20:17 last edited by SpookDogWell f@nk you very much! Wasteful Torrie!
…My plan B!
…I’ve got one ordered earlier today, once I found out my siss’s card worked. She’s a fuxin heroin when it comes to keeping me afloat!
It looks like there is enough room to fit the 57mm pin, I’m just not clued up on heat expansion & the like. I can just imagine it popping off a curclip when it comes up to temp! 🫤 …Edit: I forgot to ask about Athena replacement piston rings. Best place to get them? I understand that they’re specific to these kits as they’re 1mm thick/thin? Seems churlish not to fit new ones if they’re available and not astronomicaly priced …
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Well f@nk you very much! Wasteful Torrie!
…My plan B!
…I’ve got one ordered earlier today, once I found out my siss’s card worked. She’s a fuxin heroin when it comes to keeping me afloat!
It looks like there is enough room to fit the 57mm pin, I’m just not clued up on heat expansion & the like. I can just imagine it popping off a curclip when it comes up to temp! 🫤 …Edit: I forgot to ask about Athena replacement piston rings. Best place to get them? I understand that they’re specific to these kits as they’re 1mm thick/thin? Seems churlish not to fit new ones if they’re available and not astronomicaly priced …
wrote on 27 Nov 2023, 13:48 last edited byThe spacer that I have on the primary drive side of the crank has a groove machined into it. Does the groove side go into the crank seal?…
The others I’ve done before haven’t had the groove…
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wrote on 27 Nov 2023, 16:10 last edited by SpookDog
You can see that it’s been used either way round. I was just wondering what the reason is? If it aligned with the seal I could understand, but the wear pattern shows it doesn’t…
Actually, saying that! It looks like they’re not symmetrical! Strange!
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You can see that it’s been used either way round. I was just wondering what the reason is? If it aligned with the seal I could understand, but the wear pattern shows it doesn’t…
Actually, saying that! It looks like they’re not symmetrical! Strange!
wrote on 27 Nov 2023, 16:18 last edited by SpookDogNow I’m wondering if it’s original to the Dtr? It looks like it was used in a different engine, from the wear on one side to the other!
I don’t have another one kicking around that I know of. I’d like to know the measurements of a proper one so I can compare. It did skim off a sliver of the seal when I tapped it in. I though it was because it was a NOS seal and a bit hard. Guess I could of been wrong…Edit: then again someone could of just tapped the seal in too far, or not enough one of the times! Arrggghhhhh!!! 🤪
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Now I’m wondering if it’s original to the Dtr? It looks like it was used in a different engine, from the wear on one side to the other!
I don’t have another one kicking around that I know of. I’d like to know the measurements of a proper one so I can compare. It did skim off a sliver of the seal when I tapped it in. I though it was because it was a NOS seal and a bit hard. Guess I could of been wrong…Edit: then again someone could of just tapped the seal in too far, or not enough one of the times! Arrggghhhhh!!! 🤪
wrote on 27 Nov 2023, 16:34 last edited by SpookDogOh well, one thing that I can say with absolute conviction is: don’t buy new old stock seals trying to save money!
A 35 year old seal in the bike, is worth many, many more than in the bush. They age better in their natural environment
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wrote on 27 Nov 2023, 17:05 last edited by MadGyver
@SpookDog
There is no reason for that groove there,no gain in lubrication or anything else. It's a spacer for seals. It must be from a wornout seal.
I had something similar on the spacer that seats the seal at the external chain sprocket. It looked like factory groove. -
@SpookDog
There is no reason for that groove there,no gain in lubrication or anything else. It's a spacer for seals. It must be from a wornout seal.
I had something similar on the spacer that seats the seal at the external chain sprocket. It looked like factory groove.wrote on 27 Nov 2023, 19:44 last edited by SpookDog@MadGyver
Sorry bud, I disagree. I know, and have had, what you’re talking about. This isn’t wear, it’s machined. It’s a perfect V.
It’s just 1 not 2 like ‘normal’ wear would be?With the new (nitrile?) seal in place flush with the casing the groove lines up with the outer lip. I think it actually gives a lot more surface area for the outer lip of the seal to mate up to…
I’ve only had the wear line on single lip seals, the sprocket spacer has been my experience as well. Now I’m wondering!…
I just can’t get over the amount of ‘curve balls’ this bike has given me! The learning curve has been like climbing K2!
I do appreciate the input though, please let me know your thoughts!…
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@MadGyver
Sorry bud, I disagree. I know, and have had, what you’re talking about. This isn’t wear, it’s machined. It’s a perfect V.
It’s just 1 not 2 like ‘normal’ wear would be?With the new (nitrile?) seal in place flush with the casing the groove lines up with the outer lip. I think it actually gives a lot more surface area for the outer lip of the seal to mate up to…
I’ve only had the wear line on single lip seals, the sprocket spacer has been my experience as well. Now I’m wondering!…
I just can’t get over the amount of ‘curve balls’ this bike has given me! The learning curve has been like climbing K2!
I do appreciate the input though, please let me know your thoughts!…
wrote on 27 Nov 2023, 21:55 last edited by Calum@SpookDog I suspect there may be a correct way to put it in.
Part Number 25.
Can get a new one in Titanium
https://titanclassics.com/product/titanium-front-sprocket-spacer/
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wrote on 28 Nov 2023, 06:51 last edited by
It's a wear groove, seen it many times on cranks etc. your lucky on the DT it's a removable bush/sleeve, that can be replaced. I'd turn it so the seal is running on a smooth section of the sleeve.
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It's a wear groove, seen it many times on cranks etc. your lucky on the DT it's a removable bush/sleeve, that can be replaced. I'd turn it so the seal is running on a smooth section of the sleeve.
wrote on 28 Nov 2023, 11:40 last edited byThat is what I first thought, but it’s so perfect. Also it’s a double lipped seal so there should be two. Can you understand where I’m coming from?…
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When I saw it on the front sprocket spacer I thought it was wear. Now I’m starting to wonder. How much rubber would it take to wear into steel?!
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wrote on 28 Nov 2023, 12:32 last edited by Calum
@SpookDog I've updated my original post, I was having a hard time locating the part in question (being thick).
Anyway I think it's part number 25 you're after and it looks as though, no there should not be a lip there.
You can get a titanium replacement:
https://titanclassics.com/product/titanium-front-sprocket-spacer/
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That is what I first thought, but it’s so perfect. Also it’s a double lipped seal so there should be two. Can you understand where I’m coming from?…
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When I saw it on the front sprocket spacer I thought it was wear. Now I’m starting to wonder. How much rubber would it take to wear into steel?!
wrote on 28 Nov 2023, 14:41 last edited by HOTSHOT III@SpookDog I agree it looks machined, no idea what it's doing there but you can see how the crank seal lips have marked a wider track next to it on both sides, obviously at some point someone has rebuilt the engine and flipped the spacer to have a fresh surface running in their new crank seal.
Be that as it may, in these kinds of situations where a hard material runs against a soft material, it's usually the harder material which experiences the most wear because small fragments of the hard material embed themselves in the soft material and then behave like boulders stuck in the bottom of glaciers which is what formed today's mountain ranges as they moved slowly downhill. That's why if you go looking for an aluminium 3ET DT200R swingarm for your DT125R, you have to be very careful not to buy one which has had the shock protector mudflap rubbing against it as this can make the back of the linkage pivot area dangerously worn. KTM also had this problem on their modern Enduro bikes leading to people gluing a 50p piece onto the back of the shock pivot mounting. I didn't want to trust JB Weld in an area exposed to lots of mud and chain lube so I cut open the plastic sleeve from inside a reel of sticky labels and zip tied it in place.
Ti is a nice thought but I'd be wanting to look at its material properties, suitability for running against rubber etc. I think you can still get the OEM one from Fowlers for reasonably cheap.
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@SpookDog I agree it looks machined, no idea what it's doing there but you can see how the crank seal lips have marked a wider track next to it on both sides, obviously at some point someone has rebuilt the engine and flipped the spacer to have a fresh surface running in their new crank seal.
Be that as it may, in these kinds of situations where a hard material runs against a soft material, it's usually the harder material which experiences the most wear because small fragments of the hard material embed themselves in the soft material and then behave like boulders stuck in the bottom of glaciers which is what formed today's mountain ranges as they moved slowly downhill. That's why if you go looking for an aluminium 3ET DT200R swingarm for your DT125R, you have to be very careful not to buy one which has had the shock protector mudflap rubbing against it as this can make the back of the linkage pivot area dangerously worn. KTM also had this problem on their modern Enduro bikes leading to people gluing a 50p piece onto the back of the shock pivot mounting. I didn't want to trust JB Weld in an area exposed to lots of mud and chain lube so I cut open the plastic sleeve from inside a reel of sticky labels and zip tied it in place.
Ti is a nice thought but I'd be wanting to look at its material properties, suitability for running against rubber etc. I think you can still get the OEM one from Fowlers for reasonably cheap.
wrote on 28 Nov 2023, 15:06 last edited by SpookDogIt’s weird no? I’ve flipped them over myself. It looks like the (first?) time it was fitted with the groove inwards they put the seal in to far, instead of being flush with the casing. I’ve not seen one with a groove before. I’m guessing it’s an aftermarket replacement…
I have seen sprocket spacers with a groove that I assumed was wear. I’ve seen more that have ‘cut’ a shiny line in the rust that aren’t the same…—————————————————
Getting the lump together a bit today, mostly cause it’s not hissing down with rain & blowing crap everywhere!
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It’s weird no? I’ve flipped them over myself. It looks like the (first?) time it was fitted with the groove inwards they put the seal in to far, instead of being flush with the casing. I’ve not seen one with a groove before. I’m guessing it’s an aftermarket replacement…
I have seen sprocket spacers with a groove that I assumed was wear. I’ve seen more that have ‘cut’ a shiny line in the rust that aren’t the same…—————————————————
Getting the lump together a bit today, mostly cause it’s not hissing down with rain & blowing crap everywhere!
…wrote on 29 Nov 2023, 19:09 last edited by SpookDogFux! My bike has been running so luverly and crisp since the temp has dropped and it’s dried up a bit, but it’s developed a habit of stopping dead when I put it on the side stand (with a tiny bit of extra slope).
I don’t have the plastic ‘pickup’ tube fitted to the pilot jet, cause it was picking up blobs of water before (thank you ethylene!) and fuxin up the low range of the throttle.
This will have to be my memo to check the float height! Get some new clear 4mm tube Richy!! Do the overflow test!…I’ve kinda gotten used to having a reliable tickover!…
It’s always something in this Life!!…
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Fux! My bike has been running so luverly and crisp since the temp has dropped and it’s dried up a bit, but it’s developed a habit of stopping dead when I put it on the side stand (with a tiny bit of extra slope).
I don’t have the plastic ‘pickup’ tube fitted to the pilot jet, cause it was picking up blobs of water before (thank you ethylene!) and fuxin up the low range of the throttle.
This will have to be my memo to check the float height! Get some new clear 4mm tube Richy!! Do the overflow test!…I’ve kinda gotten used to having a reliable tickover!…
It’s always something in this Life!!…
wrote on 29 Nov 2023, 19:33 last edited by@SpookDog Yeah my bike is running crisp in this weather also, the Cagiva has died a death, but the Yamaha is still going strong
But yeah, the idle can drop if left alone for a period of time. Doesn't help I'm running premix either as I find it typically fouls the plugs! -
@SpookDog Yeah my bike is running crisp in this weather also, the Cagiva has died a death, but the Yamaha is still going strong
But yeah, the idle can drop if left alone for a period of time. Doesn't help I'm running premix either as I find it typically fouls the plugs!wrote on 1 Dec 2023, 13:21 last edited byThis happens almost immediately! Don’t drop, just dies! I’ll have to do the level check where you use a clear pipe run from the overflow/drain up the side of the carb…
Got my new 57 gudgeon pin but I’m worried about it being so snug. I’m wondering if it was a MM or so short to allow for expansion?…
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wrote on 1 Dec 2023, 15:50 last edited by
Gudgeon pins are a snug fit right?
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wrote on 2 Dec 2023, 18:53 last edited by SpookDog 12 Feb 2023, 19:11
Yeah, I think so. The Athena one actually has chamfered edges that mate up tight with the C clips. It’s so tight I think it keeps the C clips in place when it gets hot…
I just spent my afternoon taking off a MM (from my 57MM pin) with an angle grinder. I then had to do the chamfered edge on both sides. I used a fat + head screwdriver, let the pin spin on the end of it against the angle grinder…
Not pretty but it works out OK …My only wonder is that the pin I have is over twice as heavy as the Athena one. One part of me thinks the extra weight will be ‘torque-y’ when it’s spinning. The other worries about it being out of balance with the balancer shaft! 🤪
Or is it the weight of the crank that it balances?!…