Stevie’s French '98, Mid-90's WR/YZ/DT (An idiotproof guide to building your own DTR)
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Also update with the build, I might not be able to run standard DTR clocks!
So WR450 speedo cables are the same 11mm size fitment I’ve found as DTR clocks (meaning in theory you should be able to use DTR clocks with, ‘03 WR450 speedo cable and speedo drive assy), however the speedo drive assy is on the opposite side on a WR450 compared to the DTR. This means that because the MPH clock for the DTR is also the opposite side making it so it’s impossible to cleanly route the speedo cable to the clocks without having the cable criss cross all other electronics and controls
I also found some 11mm cable extenders to use on the Rev cable to as the only issue in that department was the cable not being long enough to reach anymore however the first time I attached the cable extender to the Rev cable and then attached it to the clocks, I started the bike up and the cable snapped itself
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You can pull the seal out with a self tapper screw and tap the new one in. Gotta remove the flywheel though
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@SpookDog cheers for the reply bud, I had thought so but I’d thought best to check as Haynes wasn’t too useful
I’ve also got a few different size pic and hooks that might make light work of getting that seal out
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Only thing is that I can’t imagine why the seal would fail unless the bearing has as well. Check for movement with a large flathead screwdriver while the rotor is on. See if there’s play...
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To see if it's the LHS you just need to spray WD40 in the vicinity whilst it's running. If the idles drop then you've temporarily sealed it. Be careful removing the seal with the engine in situe as you don't want to score the crank or the journal.
Personally, it's easy enough to drop the engine and do it properly. No more than an afternoons work. Good opportunity to inspect/clean and replace other items.
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@Calum I’ll get the flywheel off tomorrow to try that and then I’ll get back to you.
It wouldn’t do me no harm to drop the engine either, an afternoon with the bluetooth speaker and a couple cold ones won’t sort out. If/when I do I’ll let you know if I hit any speed bumps. Any tips or advice when getting it out
@SpookDog that makes sense and I’ll be sure to check that as well.
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@Stevie-Wonder Before you start, see if the swinging arm pivot bolt can be removed. As you will see, this gets seized and may bring your plan to a halt anyway. Always worth removing, regreasing and replacing just for fun.
The other one is the bottom suspension linkage, neither problem I had since engine/parts are like a yo-yo in my bikes anyway
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Update got a sealey comp tester and a few other bits and with the engine luke warm (i spent far too long fucking about trying to get the hose in the spark plug hole, it’s a bit fiddly and burny when your engines red hot
) and got a reading of 95 psi which was goodAlso I got the flywheel side cover off, get her running and sprayed some clutch and break / carb cleaner there expect to see the revs shoot a little and nothing happened if anything they dropped and settled for a short while after
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If you have an air leak the revs should ‘drop and settle’ to normal when you ‘spray block’ the leak. It should be instantaneous, but getting the fluid behind the flywheel into the seal is no mean feat. If it did settle, then I’d bet it’s leaking at the seal...
Have a powder fire extinguisher handy if you’re using brake/clutch cleaner around electricals, please bud!
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Want to hear a joke?
I just spent £200-300 on tools etc and quite a few hours messing about trying to find what was causing that revving issue. (I daily the bike so I’ve had to ride it like that to do my commute)
I then crash the bike (nasty highside, car turned into me doing 40-60 clipping my back wheel) only to start my bike up and have it fixed.
That’s it kids. Crash your bike it’ll fix it.
In all seriousness though be safe out there, don’t ever lose respect for the roads or what you ride.
I was coming home from work and luckily had protective clothing on. Didn’t stop me sliding the length of 4 houses and having two gaping holes in my ankle and elbow though.
link text
Not for the squeamish…link text
Protective trousers and steel toe shoes capped saved the same thing happening there.
Found the supplier for the indicator as it turned out ver where stopped selling them?
I really like them, rubber stems make them perfect for if you’re clumsy or spend a decent amount of time off-road where they can get knocked and banged.
They’re also bulb, keeping it OG. I feel like they look kinda OEM and slim the look of the bike down without it being tacky.
Fortunately / luckily there was no insurance proceedings either and the damage to the bike was purely cosmetic and the bars, handguards, shift lever rear left panel and indicator/mount on the subframe took the force of it.
You can see what’s left of my rear panel ft birdshit that happened day of the crash. Good luck eh?link text
All of the most important bits I need to replace first.
Perks of swapping out a lot of your OEM original parts is when something bad happens they’re easily replaced.Luckily everything that broke and got damaged was aftermarket and entirely replaceable, I inspected for more serious damage and there wasn’t any. I’m very lucky. I’ve seen many a bike / person come a lot worse.
New bars installed, going gold not silver this time, same 971 Roczen bend. I much prefer them in gold vs silver. New Apico throttle body thrown in there to boot as well. Throttle response is insane now. Very very snappy.
(I have some VForce 4 reeds waiting to go on that would improve that further but then I’d need to rejet and im making sure that’s the last thing I do / I only have to do it once.)Fat bars are tempting me however the cables for my throttle and clutch just aren’t long enough to allow it
To my surprise the bike actually fired up first kick right after the crash and the best bit is that after I’d healed a bit I’d give the bike a through inspection, repaired the damage and everything since I have to say she’s now running just as well as the day I bought her.
Hundred of pounds and hours of my time later but a crash is what got my bike running crisp
You just have to laugh really -
@SpookDog said in Stevie’s French '98, Mid-90's WR/YZ/DT (An idiotproof guide to building your own DTR):
If you have an air leak the revs should ‘drop and settle’ to normal when you ‘spray block’ the leak. It should be instantaneous, but getting the fluid behind the flywheel into the seal is no mean feat. If it did settle, then I’d bet it’s leaking at the seal...
Have a powder fire extinguisher handy if you’re using brake/clutch cleaner around electricals, please bud!
Did I just nearly accidentally set myself and my bike on fire?
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Sounds like you did have a blocked idle jet and the simple act of turning your bike upside down and shaking it cleared it. Think I’ll just take my carb off though!
Glad you and the bike are copacetic!
Other people eh?! 🤨
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@SpookDog nah it deffo wasn’t the jets, I’d checked them and cleaned the carb (ive also had this issue in the past so I know what it feels like), I’d done a compression test and it had about 95psi cold + holds compression really well too.
I couldn’t find any air leaks at all either. The only thing I’d done different since that problem occurred was fiddled with my idle screw whilst riding one time, having eliminated everything else it had to be carb related ?Photos to come too
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I have nothing against against the Portugal replicas but I can’t tell you how annoying it is that the battery cover isn't black, it’s good to have the originals on. I’m just glad I took them off ASAP as that could’ve been them smashed to pieces.
Not long after she was loaded up and taken on an adventure. You’d be surprised what you can carry on that luggage rack with just some bungees, a cargo net and a lot of faith.
I don’t remember taking this photo but as you can see the rally is in full swing
Being at bike rally surrounded by street fighters, HD’s and customs I thought it’s be funny to enter my bike into the Backstreet Heroes Show and well, I didn’t win any prizes (not that I expected too, I hadn’t even cleaned it since I’d last been in some fields and crashed) and in all honesty no one even really looked it at it.
However I did catch these guys smiling having a little moment reminiscing of their days being yoof’s and owning a DT themselves. never gets old does it?
I honestly love this bike so much. She just looks right.
Happy with how she sits, and the skimmer profile now I’ve pulled that headlight down.
I have plans for a custom graphic for the headlight to match the rest of the graphics and to spray the headlight white. What do you think would look better?
You’d also be surprised how tall this bike is, knobblies, 19” rear wheel + wr450 front end have made her impossible to ride if you’re vertically challenged
Sorry about the video I asked some random older dude to take a photo, apparently he doesn’t know how to use an iPhoneLoading up second time around was a piece of piss and I managed to get everything packed up a lot more efficiently leaving more room for extra gear on other adventures.
Even sat on the motorway she didn’t miss a beat either, never ceases to amaze me how good these bikes are.
Overall great rally, first one after 10+ years. I got loads of photos of the bike show so I’ll upload them at some point -
Update she’s currently out of service.
I left the petrol station one evening got half way up the road then lots of spluttering, engine coughing, limping and dying followed by plumes of a very toxic smelling smoke pouring out my exhaust so much so it was hard to see the car behind me.Aka all the signs your right side crank seal just gave up on you. Now as this means it’s a split the cases Jobby I’m going to rebuild the whole engine, get her fresh, get the trail tech dash wired up and see just how many miles I’m putting on her.
Not knowing your miles your doing isn’t bad until it’s time to maintain the bike or do routine check ups.
Plus I still don’t have a speedo so it’d be nice to get that sorted.I also have another bike on the road meaning I don’t have to rely on the DT so unlike before I can take my time and enjoy building the bike.
First thing is sorting the engine out.
I have 3 frame of minds with this
- give the engine to someone one to fix. It’s convenient and you know it’ll be done right first time, albeit costly.
- I leave the engine as it is and very very slowly acquire the parts needed to build a wr200 3XP / DT hybrid.
- get all the tools etc needed and have a proper go at rebuilding the engine myself whilst changing as little to the engine as possible.
First options convenient but being honest here I can’t afford to pay someone, I’m too tied into other things.
I also feel like I’m cheating myself doing that and I really need to learn and get comfortable rebuilding two strokes, so if not now then when.Second option with the WR200 setup is my ultimate goal for the bike eventually so it makes sense just to leave everything alone and work towards that. However that means losing many hours of seat time and tearing around in dirt.
Third option. The one I’m most in favour off and will most likely do. I really want to make a thing of restoring bikes and working with two strokes in the future so it feels like the right time to have a crack at it.
I think if i can successfully rebuild the DT then I’ll venture out more but until then I’d just be beyond chuffed to have rebuilt her myself. -
Assuming that I am going to rebuild the engine myself could anyone give me a checklist of tools I’d need, parts to order as well as any tips or ticks you’ve picked up yourself.
Also any books or anything like that that teach you proper engine building procedure and etiquette. it matters a lot to me that I pick up the right habits, understand the function of each part properly and that I do the job as professional and proper as can be.
I’m honestly like a sponge and have been obsessed with stuff like this recently but I don’t think I’ve found the right stuff to feed that obsession. -
@Stevie-Wonder Here's my post from the other day with a link to the crankcase splitter/crank puller set and the drawings for the puller adapter I had made to avoid damaging the main bearing on assembly. The circular part with the internal thread in pics 1 and 2 was made up at the same time and fits inside the collet (marked "nut" in pic 5):
https://dt125r.co.uk/post/28916
Even the mighty Rocky Mountain ATVMC transmit a side load through the main bearing when using crank pullers (check out the comments) but get this adapter made up and you won't have to!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0LK30KVWJg&t=298s
Here's a link to the 6mm glass shelf I bought to lap in the crankcase sealing/gasket surfaces. I just gaffa taped #400 wet and dry to it:
https://www.shopfittingwarehouse.co.uk/shelving-racking/shelves/glass-shelves
Lidl were selling cordless impact wrenches for about £60 a few weeks ago (cheaper than Screwfix etc.) so they might still have some; invaluable for undoing clutch/primary drive/sprocket nuts and you can make a flywheel holding tool pretty cheaply from 1" x 1/4" steel strips.
The Yambits clutch holding tool is pretty good as well as their autolube pump rebuild kit; might as well do this if the clutch cover is coming off. In fact I did my clutch cover build first (i.e that and the waterpump seal) then put it to one side out of harm's way. Also for the cross head screws get a set of pound through JIS screwdrivers from Yambits and cut the tip off the size 3 to make a large JIS impact driver bit (it has an 8mm hex all the way down the shank which fits the common 1/2" drive Argos etc. impact drivers):
https://yambits.co.uk/screwdriver-set-pound-thru-japanese-industrial-standard-jis-p-108432.html
Also get some valve grinding paste as this really helps the bit bite into the screw head. You don't want any chance of grinding paste getting anywhere near your new engine internals so chuck the screws away afterwards (especially the internal ones which were loctited during manufacture) and just order new ones by part number as they're only pence. And obviously get a brand new 50ml blue Loctite.
1/4" drive torque wrenches are pretty cheap these days due to so many fasteners on bicycles needing to be torqued (carbon handlebars etc.) so get yourself one of these for the cross head screws holding on the crank seal baffle plate, gearbox bearing retaining plate etc. Good for motorcycles generally as the 1/2" drive ones used by car mechanics are a bit insensitive for our purposes:
Initially I opted for genuine Yamaha bearings everywhere which was a huge mistake; because they're more expensive than just buying engine bearings from a bike shop, Yamaha dealers have a slower turnover of bearings which meant mine had been sat on the shelf for a (very) long time and some of them felt a little rough when I unboxed them. So I put it down to experience and bought a full Koyo set from PJME (they sell Koyo exactly the same size/grade as OEM) and they felt much better (i.e like a new bearing should). Also Koyo don't make the one behind the clutch with a single metal shield any more so my genuine Yamaha one was a 2RS (i.e rubber sealed on both sides) bearing which I wasn't really happy with inside an engine. PJME get the ones with two metal shields and remove one of them before sending them out to DTR owners which is good attention to detail IMO.
This is the YouTube vid I watched before taking on replacing my engine bearings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuXe8mQcdqk&t=555s
Good he goes through two different methods but I decided to just put the cases in the oven at gas mark 7/170C; most of the bearings just dropped out on their own after about 30 mins (very satisfying to listen to this) but one or two did require a tap and I had to buy a blind bearing puller set for the needle rollers (including the one underneath the clutch actuator arm) and the balance shaft bearings. He also has a good tip about removing locator dowels @4.40; I'd definitely replace these and the cylinder studs as corrosion gets to them even in the south of France (two of mine came out rusted to the cylinder base nut on my '93 French import).
To install the new bearings I heated the cases again and put the bearings in the freezer overnight. I was concerned about condensation rusting them as they returned to room temperature so I tested three bearings I didn't want to use by freezing all three; one with assembly lube, one with two-stroke oil and one as it comes lightly lubed out of the box. The out of the box one rusted after 30 mins on the kitchen worktop, assembly lube went like wax when frozen which I didn't like the look of (it would have caused problems during the stressful situation of trying to drop in the new bearings before the crankcase cools) and the two-stroke oil remained fluid and provided enough corrosion protection during this period so was the best for me. The balance shaft bearings were a bit stubborn; they're a lot smaller than the mains and there's a lot of meat around where they fit in the cases so I guess there's not as much potential for expansion there for a given level of heat.
Will add to this if I can think of anything else!
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@HOTSHOT-III wow that’s a lot haha, I feel like I need to sit and read the Haynes manual back to back for w good few nights
Thanks by the way, also I had planned of going with koyo, I’ve only ever heard good things about them
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@Stevie-Wonder It really isn't that complicated. Ultimately, you'll be pulling the bike apart long before those bearings give way anyway.
The thing is, if you're going down the 3XP route on the stock DTR bottom end, you'll going to be adding a lot of undue stress to the bottom end that it wasn't designed for, so it'll need regular maintenance/rebuild anyhow.
I'd definitely recommend the Haynes idea. Watching that video is good too. And keep the haynes handy.
Get lots of food bags (or zip lock bags) handy along with cable ties to keep nuts washers etc together and in the order they came out. A nice box to put all the engine bits in. It's well worth getting the cases cleaned properly before removing the bearings. This removes the risk of scoring any journals if there is any debris left there before removing the bearings. I've never had a problem using the oven technique and it's my preferred method.
That's a really good book for understanding engine rebuilds etc, there is a PDF floating about, but I had the book.
Ultimately, nothing should be tight and everything should turn freely by hand. If at any point it isn't, then taka sit back and examine the situation as chances are you've missed something.
