Stevie’s French '98, Mid-90's WR/YZ/DT (An idiotproof guide to building your own DTR)
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@Calum thank you dude! I owe so much of what I know to this forum and the people that have a passion for these old bikes! What’s mad is how now I’m actually in a position to help some people now. I once stopped my mate destroying his top end once because I remembered something about the stroke difference on the 3mb/3bn crank and cylinder. That was fun. I’ve caught numerous people out that have made out like they where Rossi’s personal bike mechanic and corrected so many people on all the yam/DT/tzr Facebook groups and revealed so called “secrets” when someone won’t reveal what they’ve done or how they did it because they want to be better then other people. Pathetic petty behaviour. Helpful at times and some good people I must admit but different atmosphere. You don’t get the sense of appreciation for the bikes and the history. Anyway enough with Facebook dick measuring contests....
Whilst all of my family are mechanics, I however am not. Not to mention they’re messy with bad work ethic. Everything I do I’m learning as I go or the things I did with my old bike. I bought a £25 tool kit wrap from Halfords purely out of chance because it was the only one that had 17mm included with it and because when I started university some little shit robbed my 17mm socket and extension I’d left right next to my bike inside the bike shed (which confused the fuck out of me because no one else’s bike even used a 17mm, crackhead antics
) As much as coincidence is it was that bought it, it also happens to carry every single tool I could possibly need for my bike and the rest. Mini volt tester, box cutter, brass wire brush, repair kits, ratchets for every screw and Allen key fitment you could need with space to chuck a couple of your own tools. Conveniently neatly zipped away in something about 3/4 the size of your average laptop. Perfect for in the back pack or long risky ride, for anyone who might read this I highly recommend. Having the proper correct fitment for the various sized screws etc had saved me so many bolts that I admit I probably would’ve rounded.
Current things I’m trying to figure out with project are best options for forks, I haven’t bought the yz front wheel so the set up for the front end could be whatever however I’d try to make it as easily compatible with stock DT rims and WR 17” sumo wheels. Not a lot to ask for I know... But now that I think about it, I’m planning on keeping it forever, why not try make it as backwards compatible and functional as possible.
I’m also deciding on what swingarm, I have an offer from a guy on eBay that still stands for a really good condition wr200 deltabox for only £65 posted. He’s convinced it’s for a YZ bless him. He said he bought it for a DT got told it needed work to fit it and ended up selling the bike. If only he’d used google and found this forum . I’d like it, especially at that price and because it’s something of a little bit later year then most but finding rear brake components has been hard.
I also have an offer for 91 YZ swingarm (I prefer the design slightly) noticed that 1991 YZ swingarm also shares the same 3SP stamp as the WR Deltabox which is how I think our friend from earlier got confused. I just made the assumption that it’s because they where different but shared something in common like shock linkage so they’d bolt on to DtR without many problems. Another upside to buying a pre 93 YZ swingarm is theres an array of aftermarket parts still and I found original parts no where near as hard as the WR. From what I’ve seen The YZ range developed massively from 87-94 and yet somehow didn’t. Lots of bits and pieces bolt on to other bikes relatively easily.
Also how to attach images? -
Update as well as a top tip. ‘88/89-91 YZ swingarms share hardware. Top tip for never paying £50 for a nos chain slider etc. They also some after market support.
I found an old MX review of the 1991 YZ and I’m pretty share they said the yz had an update with shock linkages. Luckily Yamaha changed swingarm designs from 93 onwards WR200 Deltabox swingarms and upon appearance It’s identical, using the same 3SP stamps and everything, something I noticed on all of the early alloy and Deltabox swingarms.
Anyways, 93- onwards Deltabox bought. Will take pictures when it arrives
Unfortunately though it’s missing all its hardware. I’m going to need a rear chain guide and plate that covers the brake. I still need a rear brake though, I asked the guy with the ‘91 YZ swingarm if he had the hardware for it and rear brake setup as I noticed he was also selling two complete 89 and 91 yz125’s. It turned out in has garage he had the oem chain slider and complete nissin rear brake assembly. It was in a little bit of a sorry state but not completely unusable and also a really cheap price.
All the WR200 brake units I’ve seen look like they’ve spent their life underwater, want importing from America and are asking around £150 with shipping if it’s in good condition. No thank you. So the assumption is similar/identical design and hardware wheres going to be the problem in also using the yz brake? If I’m saving £130 in the process I think that sounds rather reasonable
Now onto the next thing for the build, rear shock... I’m tired of my DTR having a saggy bum and I don’t like it if you hit a jump too. The rear end being so soft has a tendency to make the bike nose dive horrifically.))) -
@Stevie-Wonder You’re insane dude, re-post the pics so I can debunk the parts you have,
Then we can go through what works and what doesn't for the rest of the forum to read,
A thrilling read of abbreviations and part codes immortalised forever within the DT125R forum.
Infact, there is your new project name bud
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If you need any DT200WR based help or advice I have mine sat in the garage along with a genuine workshop manual
I'm keeping busy during the lock down with work (yawn) and stripping my Belgarda TDR125 3SH down which means I can also help with DTR stuff simultaneously with the 3SH basically being a DTR in drag.
Regarding the rear shock, I've just picked up one of those YSS ones for the TDR for £195 delivered and it appears to be very well made - after I priced up the lower bush for the Paioli rear shock (same as DT) and powder coating the spring etc buying new seemed sensible.
You probably know this already but Fowlers, CMSNL and ebay Europe are good sources of parts for older Yamahas but just watch the prices....£80 for 2 Belgarda fork boots = ouch!
Ben
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Okay so I’ve been having major issues embedding photos from my Flickr, I’ve tried everything and have nearly give up. The only thing that’ll work is directly uploading them my laptop which is a major pain in the ass when all the photos are on my phone, I also don’t think it masks any geotag data either.
Anyway, my plans initially where to run a WR200 front end. It seemed like a good idea. It would give me nice new shiny USD forks not to mention fitting the ignition barrel or original clocks wouldn’t be such a hassle as I could just use the WR200 speedo drive. There’s also the added backwards compatibility factor of being able to still use the stock DT wheel later on if I wanted for when I return her to stock form or if I wanted to return her to stock or just experiment with different setups. Perfect because as much as I love my knobbly’s tyres my favourite looking and riding setup to date is still 21-18 with a decent set of road tyres. Agile, fast and perfect for hauling ass on the road and light trails, just as Yamaha intended. Definitely how I’d return her in the future.
So yeah using the WR200 front end just made sense really, I wasn’t going to use the DT front wheel with the YZ rear so had already been looking at replacement options. The DT front wouldn’t do as I don’t want to ruin them and the chrome clashes with the silver rim on the rear. So upgrades in terms of weight saving would be a bonus too. However.... no forks could be found for less then £180. They where all in foreign country’s and that price was before postage or import tax’s/customs nor did it also include the matching front calliper I might need or the front wheel.
I can’t warrant the cost, a set of forks and everything else would eventually cost me £350+.This leads me to issue I’m starting to face And would to talk about, one that I’m sure many of us have faced. Cost, Condition and Availability. See I’m not the most patient of person and very rarely are we blessed enough to have all three so sometimes sacrifices must be made.
However it’s not all sacrifices though...
I got chatting to a geezer about some YZ parts and had stroke of when luck when I told about my project and he said had an entire front end from a 2002 YZ 125.
He was a nice bloke and gave me a very very reasonable offer on the lot. I also have a set of black hi rise renthal fatbars and orange anodised conversion clamps that where left over from my last bike I built, I’d been meaning to sell them for ages and never got around to it and now it seems I’m glad I didn’t, they might just come in handy.
I really had planned to keep everything period correct, however like I mentioned above the issue is you could spend years searching for any part you need or better still sacrifice your monthly wage to afford it and that’s always something in the bike of my mind.
With that being said the fact they’re a few years older then I’d like isn’t such a bad thing. Here’s why, getting the whole front end together saves me a whole load of time. Being from an ‘02 it means there’s a ton of aftermarket support for literally everything (you won’t be catching me paying £70 for a used fork guard anytime soon). A little birdy reckons the ‘92 Kayaba’s where some the worst ever produced and last but not least, stopping power.
Until I had the opportunity to buy the ‘02 front end I never really gave how I planned to stop much of a thought, then I thought about it and remembered the time me and a friend where out racing each other. Come around the bend towards the T Junction with no traffic our end, lights are green we’re racing onward and then the lights change. My friend managed make it to stop luckily. Unfortunately I didn’t, the rear locked up completely and the front end just dived and did nothing, sending me hurtling towards oncoming traffic and in front of Transit pulling out of the junction. My mate said he thought I was almost about to die. He still comments about how long the trail of tyre smoke was. Deadly stuff. -
Hello guys how is everyone! I hope everyone’s been keeping well
I’d been meaning to update this for a while but I’m saving it, hopefully there might be a big load of progress made however for now I’ve just been enjoying the bike and the weather
So for a while when I came bike from uni I’d had what seems to be a common problem of my bike randomly deciding to stop being able to rev out past 8k for no reason what so ever
It’d stumped many people, caused me to think my engine was on the way out and all sorts of things.
I decided to get the exhaust off align the valve and pin it, problem solved it’s revs out freely. I really enjoy riding my bike pinned in the right scenario however the only issue I’ve found is that past the 8.5-9k you get the worst throttle chop I’ve ever experienced. The throttle is still very responsive but under load at high rpm’s it’s like it revs backs off automatically and then will come back on whilst maintaining throttle position, this is the case even when just slowly rolling on the throttle with the RPM’s. I have wondered if the fact I’ve got a YZ 250 1/4 throttle and I’m still using the stock throttle cable which doesn’t fit 100% with the throttle because I still want to run the oil pump. *** on that note what’s a really good 1/4 throttle that’d solve that *** I’ve also noticed whenever I’ve had smaller sprockets on and pulled harder in low gears that the throttle chop effects often worse. So whilst pinning the valve has solved a problem it’s just kinda created a couple more for me but I’ll touch more on that later.
Whilst it’s certainly very choppy at times it’s still very very fun for popping the clutch. Another thing yes she wheelies. I’ve checked my piston and rings and whilst they’re worn and the dome of the piston represents the texture of sandpaper it’s really nothing horrendous. She still makes power, starts first kick and idles just above 1.1-1.2k. All the boys with WR’s still try giving it the pub talk about two strokes which just adds to the satisfaction of owning a two stroke that’s already done 10’000 miles in a year and is still going strong
I could only imagine now what this would be like without this issue unless it’s just a drawback of pinning a DT wide open?
I wish there was a way the get all the benefits of the low down torque The DT is capable of producing and still feel that sudden sharp hit of power after 7k. It’s definitely enlightened me more about why you guys like your custom ignitions so much and why the YPVS is such a good system. Here’s why...
(Whilst on my off-road trail riding shenanigans I come across a rather sharp 45-50 degree incline, 10-15 feet high and quite long, your run up is a straight and a sharp left the bumpy path that’s the same width as your bike and that’s been cut out through a thick hedge of nettles Brambles and everything else you don’t want to fall into. 110% full send it. Now this is the moment I understood how much torque the DT is capable of. I’d took a couple “bitch runs” as they’re called if you bmx or skate and soon realised as my powervalve pinned I’ve not got enough room to rip through the straight and make a hard left as not only is there not a lot of space to turn you’re also automatically on the incline so there’s not enough room to carry moment through and hold it wide open in powerband and you can just clutch in and rip it because it’s to tight, you’d wash out. Being so steep you couldn’t just sit straight up launch up it either or you’d just bog. Still I like the challenge, I said fuck it flipped the valve so it was the opposite of pinned and if she went. Pulled straight up like it was easy without even hitting the 8k Rev limit it’d have with powervalve set like that. I don’t know many other two strokes capable of that. ) This brings me to another thing... having experienced and messed about with the YPVS system a lot recently are there any of you that think it doesn’t work to it’s fullest potential? I’m just curious if there’s someone who understand two strokes better then I do as there’s maybe a reason it doesn’t completely open and close.
.This now brings me to my final thing that could make all of the above irrelevant. As mentioned I’ve spent hours now fiddling with the YPVS, I even thought the valve magically flipped 180 degrees by itself. Here’s the thing though with my exhaust off and the powervalve aligned flush the black plastic cable carrier is as far left from the aligning hole it can go, practically touching the 5mm Allen bolt that holds the casing. This means that the cleaning cycle would go left right but when valve would be aligned with the aligning hole it’s mean it’s closed which in my opinion doesn’t make any sense? The only way I can get it to align like that is by tightening the right cable as far as I can without it whilst loosening of the left as much as possible If memory serves me right this is meant to be the other way way around where the hole being aligned means your valves indicates as being flush
I’d found photos of how it was originally set up and it was completely the opposite from how I’d have to set it up now for it to be textbook “correct” and that’s what gave me the issue of it not revving past 8k.I’m just really stumped as to what’s caused this to happen or is causing this
I’d really like to get YPVS running again as I’ve tucked the switch for it just behind my tank so whenever I want to disconnect it for some fun with it pinned at a moment’s notice I can but still enjoy everything about the ypvs that makes it so good and what makes the DT pull very quick in those lower rpms. It’s also helpful it’s much quieter
Once again thanks in advance and sorry for the massive essays hope you enjoy. I hope everyone has been in good health and been able to take their bikes out at least a couple times whilst the weathers been nice and if you haven’t then I hope you’ve made progress with any projects you’re working on. Hopefully they’ll be some exciting stuff here soon...
I recently picked up a 1997 Suzuki RM80 that I’ve been having some fun restoring and rebuilding I could make a thread on if anyone’s interested -
@Stevie-Wonder definitely blog about the rm would ne interesting to read.
Pretty sure I would have said YPVS to be your problem and pinning it is usually a way to figure that out.
It shouldn't be too hard to fix the YPVS setup.
That idle is a little low. Should idle around the 2k mark. Having such a low idle will affect low speed performance as the idle controls up to 1/8 of throttle. So you will want to make sure it's correct.
Always Originate, Never Pirate!
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@Calum said in Stevie’s French '98, Mid-90's WR/YZ/DT (An idiotproof guide to building your own DTR):
@Stevie-Wonder definitely blog about the rm would ne interesting to read.
Pretty sure I would have said YPVS to be your problem and pinning it is usually a way to figure that out.
It shouldn't be too hard to fix the YPVS setup.
That idle is a little low. Should idle around the 2k mark. Having such a low idle will affect low speed performance as the idle controls up to 1/8 of throttle. So you will want to make sure it's correct.
I’m pretty sure you told me that a while ago and I’d just end up trying / checking every single thing besides that.
Had a bit of a ta-dah moment last night and think I’ve solved my own problem, I was messing around with my P top end looking at valve positioning and I think either me or the mechanic I was with made the mistake of putting the plastic onto diamond at the wrong angle which would explain why my adjustments on the tensioners and everything else is so off.it shouldn’t be/isn’t complicated at all especially after looking at suzuki and Kawasaki’s powervalve systems.
I’ve had a few people tell me that it idles really low however it’s been like that for as long as I’ve owned the bike / it came from unit 23 anytime I’ve bumped the idle up a little bit she doesn’t like it, I just thought all older DT’s where like it. Never hurt the bike or felt a negative effect from it so I’d just left it
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Like reading a wall of text is hard enough, let alone trying to diagnose the problem.
Split your question up using
Headings
Titles
- Bullet Points
and short paragraphs with spacing & photos and I'm sure we can have it sorted.
Check the exploding diagrams & consult the Haynes manual for more information. Haynes is worth its weight in Diamonds! So get one if you haven't already.
Always Originate, Never Pirate!
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Poor Sentence Structure
@Calum it’ll do for now, I will improve for future reference
Here’s a couple points to consider though
•Having ASD my concentration is wank and struggling with the pen to paper process is one of the defects of it.
•Due to the above, it takes me a much longer amount of of time to write my posts so apologies for those who find themselves.
•I’m actually really good at English it’s just when it’s late at night and I’ve spent way to long writing a blog post (which is usually huge because I suck at updating it regularly) I don’t think about reviewing, I’m usually scrambling because my phones about to die
•You are right though the structure of that is horrible to read. If you had dyslexia you’d probably just say nope. With that being said I have so many photos it’s unreal that’d solve this I just haven’t got around to cracking how to upload from my phone and not have to worry about hidden trackers in the photos from where some of the photos etc would’ve been taken on iPhone.Actual Problem that’s now no longer a problem
Either way problems fixed, turns out the problem was just the plastic was sat on the wrong angle of the diamond the entire time. Amazing how something that simple stumped so many people.
A bit of a bastard but at least I’ve had an education on YPVS, powervalves and the importance of them to two strokes. It’s also taught my why Yamahas cylindrical rotating valve system is such a good, simple and robust design. Interesting stuff. I’d like to learn how the guillotine valve works like on my RM80I had consulted Haynes manual quite a few times and no luck. It’s not the first time Haynes hasn’t give me the answers, I had the same problem when replacing my fork seals.
I’m just being picky though. With YouTube and a Haynes manual it’s really not that difficult to do and do good job of it.YPVS STUFF
With the YPVS now working properly again, I am well and truly loving life and in love with my bike again. Torque. Lots and lots of torque. Long gone are the days of abysmal nothingness before 6-7k. I forgot how nice it was to comfortably cruise somewhere without having to hammer it and I forgot just how essential that little bit of low down power is to a DT to be able to pull through the gears. Especially with knobbly’s and a 19” rear.
Pinning the valve was fun. I’ve enjoyed that snap of power like on a 85cc MX bike and really helped me getting comfortable with getting the front wheel above the ground.However as many of you have said before me and will learn after me, in no way does it improve the bike or make it faster. Instead it’s just filled me with appreciation for it being there in the first place. For that reason alone I recommend you if you’re reading this just once disconnect your YPVS and feel the difference it makes. Even if you don’t like it you’ll still find there’s something really fun about riding a two stroke with that cliche two stroke feel, even if it does hinder performance. -
@Stevie-Wonder I mean? It takes me hours to write blog posts? How quick are you expecting it to take.
You don't need to do it in one hit. It's supposed to be enjoyable. So take your time to craft something that is both enjoyable to yourself and others.
Personally, no doing any type of blogging on a mobile device is a no. This site is great to peruse and comment on a mobile. But for blogging, give me a keyboard all day long.
Again, I wouldn't really call it stumped, if you had uploaded a photo, or if I were there in person, I would have spotted that as soon as we came to adjust the valve. But reading lots of text is very difficult. If I were to be tested, I'm sure I'd fall within the Dyslexia/Dyspraxia category for sure.
If you've never seen the bike before, I'm not sure how you'd figure out the plastic thing was on the wrong way. I guess by examining it with the exhaust off is how I usually tackle YPVS issues. I don't even bother with the valve cover, it's must easier to simply take the exhaust off and do it that way.
Glad that's sorted anyway, so it's now on to the next item on the list...
Always Originate, Never Pirate!
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@Calum said in Stevie’s French '98, Mid-90's WR/YZ/DT (An idiotproof guide to building your own DTR):
@Stevie-Wonder I mean? It takes me hours to write blog posts? How quick are you expecting it to take.
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I appreciate the advice, it helped a lot I do believe I’ve cracked it. The return button is now my friend, for the sake of both my eyes and yours.
My only shortfall with blogging is keeping in the routine however I enjoy writing a lot so there’s a trade off I suppose. -
I completely agree but I honestly think if it wasn’t for having a smartphone I’d blog at all. Even being 22 and doing film and editing stuff I just don’t ever get my laptop out to use it for anything then things that you have too.
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True, true, I’m not saying it stumped you but it certainly had me and a lot of much wiser mechanics. Something like that could’ve been recognised easily but unfortunately I hadn’t cracked image uploads.
It just highlights how much experience matters
as all the help in the world couldn’t fix a problem when they have as much experience dealing with it as I do.
“If you've never seen the bike before, I'm not sure how you'd figure out the plastic thing was on the wrong way.” Just a reminder to me and all, in a journey of learning we often don’t know any better. We’re all learning.
Also what you said about the YPVS etc n all that me too. I’d spent so much time fiddling with the YPVS, getting it aligned countless times before working out where it was wrong ripping the exhaust off that now It doesn’t even seem like a task to do. I also leave the pulley cover off to keep an eye on it (every now and again if I’m out I’ll kill power to the YPVS and ride it pinned for a bit of fun) I’m gonna get a custom clear acrylic cover for it though.
Anyway next item on the list....
So I must admit I’ve been a bit bad at keeping this updated but then again I really don’t think I have much to update.
No big stories this time.
Updates are really as follows, had a hilarious eureka moment that ended two days of anxiety about if I majorly hugely fucked up buying that swingarm a while back. I didn’t. My gamble paid off massively. I’m a proud owner of a DT200WR Deltabox unit and well, what a beautiful piece of shit it is. Honestly. Not only was it simultaneously the most confusing and biggest pain in the ass to dig up info on but the welds look like they where done my Ray Charles left hand whilst he wiped his ass with the other.Not that many people will get the opportunity to see one, plus photos and info are rare so I’ll do why I can to upload some.
But basically the DT200WR variation swingarm is literally a fully built 4BF that Yamaha’s took a 45-30 degree cut to the rear section to weld in the different style chain adjuster.
You can literally see how the cut runs straight through, including the slide for the calliper mount
facepalm
Is it nice? Yes. Is it rare? Very. Do I love not having tortoise shell chain adjusters? Fuck me do I. Was literally everything about it a pain in the ass? You have no idea. Even locating axle blocks for it took over a week and wasn’t until a couple weeks ago I finally knew 100% for certain it was what I had.
Nonetheless as you can probably tell I’m glad to finally have that all over and sorted. Only thing to do to it is get it polished up proppaOne other thing, I’m now on the hunt again for a shock to with the swinger. Unfortunately I passed up the opportunity of buying another rare part a DT230 Lanza Shock. Seller didn’t know what it was and neither did I until I found out it sold. The geezer only wanted about £60 for it but I didn’t have the funds. Lanza shocks I’m pretty sure are completely adjustable and also don’t have a fixed piggyback design, perfect for our DT’s.
Seen a couple 86-87 YZ 250 shocks in the states that after a few beers don’t look too terrible...I’ve also had the 19” rear on her a while now and I’ve got to say what a lot of fun. Highly unstable above 70 mph though to a point of being scary. Had to play around with the gearing a little bit too and come to the conclusion that stock gearing and dropping a tooth at the front with a 19” rear actually has some surprisingly good and useable results depending on what you’re doing.
Was also very pleasantly surprised with the performance both on-road and off-road of the Michelin AC10 I have on the rear. (I paid £110 for the wheel and got a free set of new AC10’s with them). Now I’m really picky when it comes to tires and I’m also a huge fan of the Maxxis Maxxcross IT’s and thought they’d be hard to beat but honestly the results have been really really good. I’d never gravitated toward them before due to their huge spacing however on the bike they provide a very nice continuous contact patch along every angle of tire, they’re surprisingly nice on road too just a little less forgiving if you lean to far on a corner due to the nature of their tread design.
Last but not least:
The only other update I have is that I’m thinking about selling up my 4FU and 4DL topends. It’s just been a recurring thought recently of being uncertain if I’ll ever actually get around to using them / if using them will give me the things I want.
I’ve been preaching to a lot of people recently how for the amount of money you’ll probably get into modifying a DT the biggest gain HP for your buck would be to buy a 170 kit and have it ported and I feel I might fall victim to my own advice.
I want to play with the 125 top ends so bad and see the difference but I also think for the amount of £££ I’ll spend I’ll be disappointed. Especially if I get into tuning that 4FU. -
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@Calum said in Stevie’s French '98, Mid-90's WR/YZ/DT (An idiotproof guide to building your own DTR):
@Darty A picture says a thousand words
@calum that would explain the volume of written content..
I will eventually learn how tag images in I promise.
Once you see a photo though you’ll see what I mean. Although calling it a bit of shit probably wasn’t choice words.In other news I’ve made a nice discovery.
I think I’ve cracked how to run my modern Yz front end and keep the old standard clocks or potentially run some DT200 ones if I need to slim the cockpit space down a little.
Now I spend a bit of time on the webs n that and I’ve never come across anyone who’s done that to their DT before so it’d be cool if it works.
I know I’d be really happy because I never really had any plans for having an LCD display. The old clocks just give me too much nostalgia, they remind me I’m sat on an old bike. Something I don’t want to take away from.
Whilst it’d be super clean and convenient it just ruins what the bikes about. Motorcycling is a very visceral mechanical experience. It’s very much you and the machine and computers spoil that. I want to see those revs rocket at 7k not because a sensor tells a computer, that tells a screen, that that’s what it’s meant to be doing but because the engine is actually making it ‘ya know what I mean? I remember @Darty having a thing against this too just glad I wasn’t going to have to resort to a gps bicycle speedo or something ridiculous
