Front calliper on Rear?...
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wrote on 12 Jul 2022, 18:09 last edited by
Has anyone fitted a DTR125 front calliper onto the rear wheel? I know it’s not a huge difference but it does have a bigger piston and theoretically more force? If not why do they fit them to the front?...
It’s not difficult, just swap the slide bolt over to the other side of the mount...
I also just noticed that the front calliper on my TZR is a 4 piston Sumitomo and the rear is a 2 piston. I don’t think they’re viable for a mod though cause of clearance...
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Has anyone fitted a DTR125 front calliper onto the rear wheel? I know it’s not a huge difference but it does have a bigger piston and theoretically more force? If not why do they fit them to the front?...
It’s not difficult, just swap the slide bolt over to the other side of the mount...
I also just noticed that the front calliper on my TZR is a 4 piston Sumitomo and the rear is a 2 piston. I don’t think they’re viable for a mod though cause of clearance...
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@SpookDog Well anything is possible if you can be bothered. I retrofitted RS 125 Calipers to mine.
Best thing about this bike is how it stops!
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wrote on 13 Jul 2022, 22:23 last edited by SpookDog
Hmmmm! Turns out it doesn’t work so well unless you’ve got a master cylinder that can pump out a viable displacement to work the slave. Otherwise you end up with half a brake 🥴
I’m gonna see if I can rob the one of of the Yz rear brake. Wish me luck!
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Hmmmm! Turns out it doesn’t work so well unless you’ve got a master cylinder that can pump out a viable displacement to work the slave. Otherwise you end up with half a brake 🥴
I’m gonna see if I can rob the one of of the Yz rear brake. Wish me luck!
wrote on 14 Jul 2022, 16:04 last edited by@SpookDog said in Front calliper on Rear?...:
Hmmmm! Turns out it doesn’t work so well unless you’ve got a master cylinder that can pump out a viable displacement to work the slave. Otherwise you end up with half a brake 🥴
I’m gonna see if I can rob the one of of the Yz rear brake. Wish me luck!
You can also do the opposite and see some improvement. Accidentally they had sent me a rear master cylinder from a big cc bike from a breakers yard,it was like the DT's but fatter and with twice the mm's for the brake hose.I fitted with minor mod's and it "overboosted" my rear calliper. Locks the 18 size wheel from the TZR250 very easy.
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@SpookDog said in Front calliper on Rear?...:
Hmmmm! Turns out it doesn’t work so well unless you’ve got a master cylinder that can pump out a viable displacement to work the slave. Otherwise you end up with half a brake 🥴
I’m gonna see if I can rob the one of of the Yz rear brake. Wish me luck!
You can also do the opposite and see some improvement. Accidentally they had sent me a rear master cylinder from a big cc bike from a breakers yard,it was like the DT's but fatter and with twice the mm's for the brake hose.I fitted with minor mod's and it "overboosted" my rear calliper. Locks the 18 size wheel from the TZR250 very easy.
wrote on 14 Jul 2022, 17:06 last edited byIt’s be nice to know which bikes to be looking for! The DTR125 is a 12.7mm piston I think. I’ve found an unknown bike Nissin that looks the same but is 14mm for a reasonable price. Thinking of getting it. The prices on eBay are unfuckin believable! When are these jokers gonna realise that a realistic priced item will sell! Instead of cluttering up the web with overpriced, repeat, repeat, repeat, items that never sell 🤨 All copying the same unrealistic price cause they’re sheeple that’ve seen others do it!...
Pisses me off!... -
It’s be nice to know which bikes to be looking for! The DTR125 is a 12.7mm piston I think. I’ve found an unknown bike Nissin that looks the same but is 14mm for a reasonable price. Thinking of getting it. The prices on eBay are unfuckin believable! When are these jokers gonna realise that a realistic priced item will sell! Instead of cluttering up the web with overpriced, repeat, repeat, repeat, items that never sell 🤨 All copying the same unrealistic price cause they’re sheeple that’ve seen others do it!...
Pisses me off!...wrote on 14 Jul 2022, 17:33 last edited byDo DTR125 and dtx125 share the same front hubs? I’m wondering about mounting a 30cm disc obviously. Sorry if this has been asked a 100 times before!...
Be nice to know if the fork bottoms are the same as well
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Do DTR125 and dtx125 share the same front hubs? I’m wondering about mounting a 30cm disc obviously. Sorry if this has been asked a 100 times before!...
Be nice to know if the fork bottoms are the same as well ... -
Has anyone fitted a DTR125 front calliper onto the rear wheel? I know it’s not a huge difference but it does have a bigger piston and theoretically more force? If not why do they fit them to the front?...
It’s not difficult, just swap the slide bolt over to the other side of the mount...
I also just noticed that the front calliper on my TZR is a 4 piston Sumitomo and the rear is a 2 piston. I don’t think they’re viable for a mod though cause of clearance...
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It’s be nice to know which bikes to be looking for! The DTR125 is a 12.7mm piston I think. I’ve found an unknown bike Nissin that looks the same but is 14mm for a reasonable price. Thinking of getting it. The prices on eBay are unfuckin believable! When are these jokers gonna realise that a realistic priced item will sell! Instead of cluttering up the web with overpriced, repeat, repeat, repeat, items that never sell 🤨 All copying the same unrealistic price cause they’re sheeple that’ve seen others do it!...
Pisses me off!...wrote on 16 Jul 2022, 10:41 last edited by@SpookDog said in Front calliper on Rear?...:
It’s be nice to know which bikes to be looking for! The DTR125 is a 12.7mm piston I think. I’ve found an unknown bike Nissin that looks the same but is 14mm for a reasonable price. Thinking of getting it. The prices on eBay are unfuckin believable! When are these jokers gonna realise that a realistic priced item will sell! Instead of cluttering up the web with overpriced, repeat, repeat, repeat, items that never sell 🤨 All copying the same unrealistic price cause they’re sheeple that’ve seen others do it!...
Pisses me off!...That might work. ( ((14/2 squared) x 3.142) - ((12.7/2 squared x 3.142) ) / ((12.7/2 squared x 3.142) ) x 100% = 21.5% more fluid displaced when you move the 14mm m/cyl piston the same distance compared to the 12.7mm piston.
What are the diameters of the front and rear DTR caliper pistons please?
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@SpookDog said in Front calliper on Rear?...:
It’s be nice to know which bikes to be looking for! The DTR125 is a 12.7mm piston I think. I’ve found an unknown bike Nissin that looks the same but is 14mm for a reasonable price. Thinking of getting it. The prices on eBay are unfuckin believable! When are these jokers gonna realise that a realistic priced item will sell! Instead of cluttering up the web with overpriced, repeat, repeat, repeat, items that never sell 🤨 All copying the same unrealistic price cause they’re sheeple that’ve seen others do it!...
Pisses me off!...That might work. ( ((14/2 squared) x 3.142) - ((12.7/2 squared x 3.142) ) / ((12.7/2 squared x 3.142) ) x 100% = 21.5% more fluid displaced when you move the 14mm m/cyl piston the same distance compared to the 12.7mm piston.
What are the diameters of the front and rear DTR caliper pistons please?
wrote on 16 Jul 2022, 14:38 last edited byFront is 55mm
Rear is 50mm
I think!... -
@SpookDog Well anything is possible if you can be bothered. I retrofitted RS 125 Calipers to mine.
Best thing about this bike is how it stops!
wrote on 16 Jul 2022, 18:11 last edited by MH-Bikes-N-Bits@Calum That aprilla logo would really annoy me would have to machine that on off
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@Calum That aprilla logo would really annoy me would have to machine that on off
wrote on 16 Jul 2022, 18:28 last edited by@MH-Bikes-N-Bits Yeah, I done this like 10 years ago when I was just a wee nipper. Nowadays I do like to file off markings like that. Pretty sure Aprilia don't make them and they are actually Brembos.
On the Cagiva they run the same brake calipers as the RS but with Brembo stamps instead of Aprilia/Cagiva.
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wrote on 16 Jul 2022, 19:16 last edited by SpookDog
That is definitely food for thought! Though I’m having to put my upgrade ideas on hold till I can sort out my head again! Shame, the old thing was going so well, picking up smooth and quick through the band and all. So much so I proper noticed how woeful the brakes are on these bikes!
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Front is 55mm
Rear is 50mm
I think!...wrote on 16 Jul 2022, 20:54 last edited by@SpookDog I had some old front/rear pistons accessible so was able to measure them, stock DTR front is 35mm and rear is 30mm dia. so:
( ((17.5 squared) x 3.142) - ((15 squared) x 3.142) ) / ( ((15 squared) x 3.142) x 100% ) = front caliper has 36.1% more piston area than rear, meaning you need a rear master cylinder which displaces 36% more fluid than the stock 12.7mm bore item to run a front caliper on the rear and retain the rear brake action/feel/pedal travel.
So reversing the master cylinder equation gives us:
(Square root ( (((6.35 squared) x 3.142) x 1.36) / 3.142) )= New rear m/cyl piston radius
= 7.40mm meaning you’ll need a master cylinder with a bore just under 15mm.
Check by comparing with the stock setup (12.7mm dia. m/cyl and 30mm dia. caliper pistons):
STOCK
((15 squared) x 3.142) / ((6.35 squared) x 3.142) = 5.58 (m/cyl. piston moves 5.58 times the distance of caliper piston because caliper piston has 5.58 times the m/cyl. piston’s area)FRONT CALIPER AND 14.8MM BORE M/CYL
((17.5 squared) x 3.142) / ((7.4 squared) x 3.142) = 5.59 (m/cyl. piston moves 5.59 times the distance of caliper piston because caliper piston has 5.59 times the m/cyl. piston’s area).FRONT CALIPER AND 15MM BORE M/CYL
((17.5 squared) x 3.142) / ((7.5 squared) x 3.142) = 5.44 (m/cyl. piston moves 5.44 times the distance of caliper piston because caliper piston has 5.44 times the m/cyl. piston’s area; a 15mm dia. bore m/cyl will slightly reduce brake feel/pedal travel but probably not noticeable. 15mm bore is probably available somewhere).FRONT CALIPER AND 14MM BORE M/CYL
((17.5 squared) x 3.142) / ((7 squared) x 3.142) = 6.25 so if you run the 14mm bore m/cyl. the rear brake will be noticeably spongy; pedal might hit the frame/footpeg mount before locking the wheel which won’t please the MOT man!I’ve never tried anything like this and the numbers surprised me so if anyone has anything to add don’t hesitate (checked as best I can but it’s late!). However it does seem logical as anything cylindrical has a big increase in displacement for a small increase in diameter. Hence the twin .50 caliber Brownings in a B-17 tail turret could do a lot more damage than the four .303s fitted to the Lancaster, even though all four .303s had a much higher rate of fire and could pour out a lot more rounds.
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@SpookDog I had some old front/rear pistons accessible so was able to measure them, stock DTR front is 35mm and rear is 30mm dia. so:
( ((17.5 squared) x 3.142) - ((15 squared) x 3.142) ) / ( ((15 squared) x 3.142) x 100% ) = front caliper has 36.1% more piston area than rear, meaning you need a rear master cylinder which displaces 36% more fluid than the stock 12.7mm bore item to run a front caliper on the rear and retain the rear brake action/feel/pedal travel.
So reversing the master cylinder equation gives us:
(Square root ( (((6.35 squared) x 3.142) x 1.36) / 3.142) )= New rear m/cyl piston radius
= 7.40mm meaning you’ll need a master cylinder with a bore just under 15mm.
Check by comparing with the stock setup (12.7mm dia. m/cyl and 30mm dia. caliper pistons):
STOCK
((15 squared) x 3.142) / ((6.35 squared) x 3.142) = 5.58 (m/cyl. piston moves 5.58 times the distance of caliper piston because caliper piston has 5.58 times the m/cyl. piston’s area)FRONT CALIPER AND 14.8MM BORE M/CYL
((17.5 squared) x 3.142) / ((7.4 squared) x 3.142) = 5.59 (m/cyl. piston moves 5.59 times the distance of caliper piston because caliper piston has 5.59 times the m/cyl. piston’s area).FRONT CALIPER AND 15MM BORE M/CYL
((17.5 squared) x 3.142) / ((7.5 squared) x 3.142) = 5.44 (m/cyl. piston moves 5.44 times the distance of caliper piston because caliper piston has 5.44 times the m/cyl. piston’s area; a 15mm dia. bore m/cyl will slightly reduce brake feel/pedal travel but probably not noticeable. 15mm bore is probably available somewhere).FRONT CALIPER AND 14MM BORE M/CYL
((17.5 squared) x 3.142) / ((7 squared) x 3.142) = 6.25 so if you run the 14mm bore m/cyl. the rear brake will be noticeably spongy; pedal might hit the frame/footpeg mount before locking the wheel which won’t please the MOT man!I’ve never tried anything like this and the numbers surprised me so if anyone has anything to add don’t hesitate (checked as best I can but it’s late!). However it does seem logical as anything cylindrical has a big increase in displacement for a small increase in diameter. Hence the twin .50 caliber Brownings in a B-17 tail turret could do a lot more damage than the four .303s fitted to the Lancaster, even though all four .303s had a much higher rate of fire and could pour out a lot more rounds.
wrote on 16 Jul 2022, 21:26 last edited byThat’s some impressive math! Sorry I was so far out on the measurements
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That’s some impressive math! Sorry I was so far out on the measurements
wrote on 16 Jul 2022, 21:44 last edited by HOTSHOT III@SpookDog Thanks bud no worries, I've been meaning to take a look at this for a while as front calipers are a lot easier to get hold of than rears. And if you can find a suitable master cylinder you'll get the added benefit of a proper dust seal which the stock rear caliper doesn't have!
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@SpookDog Thanks bud no worries, I've been meaning to take a look at this for a while as front calipers are a lot easier to get hold of than rears. And if you can find a suitable master cylinder you'll get the added benefit of a proper dust seal which the stock rear caliper doesn't have!
wrote on 17 Jul 2022, 07:59 last edited by@HOTSHOT-III so I am running the stock Nissin rear master cylinder and those RS brakes stop on a dime!
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@HOTSHOT-III so I am running the stock Nissin rear master cylinder and those RS brakes stop on a dime!
wrote on 17 Jul 2022, 09:43 last edited by@Calum Interesting, what diameter is the caliper piston(s) please? And is there a significant difference in pad area compared to a stock DTR rear caliper? Nice bit of machining BTW
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@Calum Interesting, what diameter is the caliper piston(s) please? And is there a significant difference in pad area compared to a stock DTR rear caliper? Nice bit of machining BTW
wrote on 17 Jul 2022, 18:38 last edited by SpookDog@HOTSHOT-III it’s a twin piston calliper I think. The ones that bolt together usually are...
The front m/cyl on the DTR125 is 14mm yes? I got one coming off of fleabay. Looks just like a standard rear but 14. Don’t know if the holes line up but will see!
I’m not sure if I can see the benefit of a bigger piston diameter on the slave, not when the pads are the same surface area on the front and rear?
I’m having trouble understanding where the beneficial ‘fulcrum’ is, if that makes any sense?! Where does it maximise PSI over a bigger surface area? That’s what brakes are about no? Plus added ‘leverage’ from a bigger diameter disc?
I’m really sorry if I’m not making sense! This is all new thinking to me
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