So Close!...
-
@calum
Awwwhhh man! I was under the impression that the front wheel got homesick for heaven in first and second, just under throttle! Or is that just stories I’ve heard coined from youthful exuberance?!
-
@spookdog DTR's are SLLLOOOWWW!
I don't know what else to say. I have always been disappointed with their performance. Even when tuned they are still slow.
@calum
Hey! I grew up on Vespas & Lambrettas! It’s all comparative. It’s still good fun is good enough for me
Damn! I almost forgot, I had a DT125e (e was for enduro then) once upon a 1980-something. That was 55~60 flat out. I enjoyed that thing too, even though it was almost as untuned as a scooter
-
@calum
Hey! I grew up on Vespas & Lambrettas! It’s all comparative. It’s still good fun is good enough for meDamn! I almost forgot, I had a DT125e (e was for enduro then) once upon a 1980-something. That was 55~60 flat out. I enjoyed that thing too, even though it was almost as untuned as a scooter
-
@spookdog Was out today with my brother on his Vespa T5. Rapid little scooter would run rings around my DT all day long.
-
@calum
They were the ‘new’ ones that came out in the 90’s? Looked like a PX125 had been raped by a Sinclair c5?@spookdog That's lost on me.
I still get confused between Lambrettas and Vespas if I'm honest.
They all look the same to me.
It's quick though, no getting around that. Definitely faster than my DTR.
My Dad is maaadd on scoots. He's got 4 Vespas and one Model D Lambretta. I think it's great, he is full on reliving his youth, was going to all the local meets etc and catching up with the old gang. Brilliant
-
@spookdog That's lost on me.
I still get confused between Lambrettas and Vespas if I'm honest.
They all look the same to me.
It's quick though, no getting around that. Definitely faster than my DTR.
My Dad is maaadd on scoots. He's got 4 Vespas and one Model D Lambretta. I think it's great, he is full on reliving his youth, was going to all the local meets etc and catching up with the old gang. Brilliant
@calum
It was just a little joke we used to say about t5’s when they appeared on the scene. Most people wouldn’t go near them cause they weren’t old skool . They only used to do 60 though, so I’m guessing your bruvs is a later one?
I had a few Vespa 200’s with 30mm delortto & fresco exhausts on. They would keep up with an LC till about 55-60 then the LC would walk away. My lambrettas were pretty much the same. The scooter scene was really good, everything from mods to scooter scum, I know a lot of people who still keep it up from my generation and older. I’m glad your dad is still going on strong.. -
@calum
It was just a little joke we used to say about t5’s when they appeared on the scene. Most people wouldn’t go near them cause they weren’t old skool . They only used to do 60 though, so I’m guessing your bruvs is a later one?
I had a few Vespa 200’s with 30mm delortto & fresco exhausts on. They would keep up with an LC till about 55-60 then the LC would walk away. My lambrettas were pretty much the same. The scooter scene was really good, everything from mods to scooter scum, I know a lot of people who still keep it up from my generation and older. I’m glad your dad is still going on strong.. -
@spookdog Yeah sure. His is modified but it's fast for what it is.
Yeah the scene is still thriving today, mainly old timers mind you. The younger generation are more into their 4 bangers
Don’t be ageist
Loads of people my age love two strokes, it’s just no longer a viable option for someone young to own one anymore. It’s why when I pull up on the DT all boys on their euro 4 bangers wanna come have a look and talk to me but they’ll always say whilst they’ve always wanted one they could never own one. It’s like theres a two stroke generation gap or something- they’re expensive to buy, maintain and run. 2) highly sought after (by thieves and riders alike) 3) there’s less and less people the same age with the knowledge to maintain them. 4) you usually pay a premium on insurance for owning one as a young person depending where you live.
- with it now looking like you’ll no longer be able to import from France it means what bikes are left are gonna be SORN and left in a garage and forgotten about for 10 years. So good luck finding one that seems viable to use as a daily.
It honestly feels like these days owning a smoker of any sort is more an act of love then it is a mode of transport
-
Don’t be ageist
Loads of people my age love two strokes, it’s just no longer a viable option for someone young to own one anymore. It’s why when I pull up on the DT all boys on their euro 4 bangers wanna come have a look and talk to me but they’ll always say whilst they’ve always wanted one they could never own one. It’s like theres a two stroke generation gap or something- they’re expensive to buy, maintain and run. 2) highly sought after (by thieves and riders alike) 3) there’s less and less people the same age with the knowledge to maintain them. 4) you usually pay a premium on insurance for owning one as a young person depending where you live.
- with it now looking like you’ll no longer be able to import from France it means what bikes are left are gonna be SORN and left in a garage and forgotten about for 10 years. So good luck finding one that seems viable to use as a daily.
It honestly feels like these days owning a smoker of any sort is more an act of love then it is a mode of transport
@Stevie-Wonder Age has nothing to do with it. The younger generation are more into their four bangers.
I see plenty of kids riding around on brand new KTM RC 125's and RS4 125s where the two stroke variants are MUCH cheaper to buy.
The fact of the matter is, kids these days actively seek out the Four Stroke market. The market is flooded with quality two strokes at the moment.
Insurance was never a factor for me, you're talking £300 a year to insure when I was at school. And most people I knew were driving around in Corsa's paying £1800 a year.
I also see lots of KTM Dukes/RC's stolen my way. So theft is pretty common regardless of engine configuration.
I've never considered Two Stroke 125 as expensive to run/maintained. Again with the aforementioned Corsas costing a lot more. BUT Four Stroke 125's are MINT on fuel and I'd recommend something like a Honda Grom if you're just commuting around a city.
But again you're talking £3500 to buy one of these and they're tinyIf the younger generation wanted a smoker then they'd get one.
Always Originate, Never Pirate!
-
@Stevie-Wonder Age has nothing to do with it. The younger generation are more into their four bangers.
I see plenty of kids riding around on brand new KTM RC 125's and RS4 125s where the two stroke variants are MUCH cheaper to buy.
The fact of the matter is, kids these days actively seek out the Four Stroke market. The market is flooded with quality two strokes at the moment.
Insurance was never a factor for me, you're talking £300 a year to insure when I was at school. And most people I knew were driving around in Corsa's paying £1800 a year.
I also see lots of KTM Dukes/RC's stolen my way. So theft is pretty common regardless of engine configuration.
I've never considered Two Stroke 125 as expensive to run/maintained. Again with the aforementioned Corsas costing a lot more. BUT Four Stroke 125's are MINT on fuel and I'd recommend something like a Honda Grom if you're just commuting around a city.
But again you're talking £3500 to buy one of these and they're tinyIf the younger generation wanted a smoker then they'd get one.
@calum you’ve missed the point though, every person on a four banger wants a two stroke it’s just that it’s not the go to for your average learner because like I said before the age of the two stroke is long gone.
Every single one of my mates on their YZF’s, WR’s, Dukes all absolute fancy the pants off the DT and every single time will profess they wished they’d had one but....Enough time has passed that if you’re a 20 something in this day and age everything about a four banger is just better and more viable option. It’s just what’s pushed on to learner market these days, it’s nothing about interest at all it’s just about what’s easier and more readily available to your average learner.
That’s what I meant about a two stroke generation gap, turn back the clocks some 10-15 years and it’d be a different story. At least so I imagine, I’ll let you boys share your stories of being a yoof.
Speaking as someone who started on a four banger and fits into that category they’re just so much easier to swing a leg over. More affordable, easier to find someone who’d service them (because chances are the average learner don’t have any bike maintenance or mechanical skills), service intervals are simpler.
So like I say, learner riders aren’t getting on to four strokes through lack of interest just simply the lack of accessibility.
Proof of this is the 50cc’s, you’ll be hard pressed to find a geared 50 that hasn’t been tuned to 70/76cc.I get what you’re saying though you can buy a decent two stroke for 1,500 compared to 2k for a four banger however like I mentioned then you’ve also got to be able to afford the maintenance which if you can’t do yourself turns a 1,500 smoker into an unusable and expensive form of transport. Then there’s this, when you’re a new rider who knows nothing about two strokes the one thing you can guarantee you have heard is that they blow up / seize in a rather unexpected and dangerous fashion that a four stroke never will. Boom. Now guess who just bought a four banger?
Once again if this was 10-15 years ago and a few of your mates had two strokes someone would quickly explain the reason why that happens and how rare it happens as well but like I said before, it’s just not what’s viable option anymore so you’re left with us two stroke nuts keeping the torch litI fully get what your saying man, you got a good argument but for every good 125 two stroke on the market right now theres at least 8 four strokes that where purposely designed for a learner rider.
You are right though compared to a car everything’s expensive. I always laughed at the boy racers and just sat there thinking you could have a 600 which would dust off any learner car
It’s for that reason I did my driving lessons but haven’t bothered buying a car... what’s the point? Stupidly overpriced.Also dukes... funny you mention them. My friend Molly JD hers stolen a week after she sold it. They’re commonly stolen I think it’s because you can break there steering locks easy and also get a flash reader like you would for cars that just plugs in and makes it work like normal.
That and they’re easy to Hotwire unfortunately. Dukes are just a real easy target to nick, I’ve seen a few go missing my way as well -
@stevie-wonder In the 15 years I have been riding smokers, I have never had one seize on me. In fact I know more people who have had four strokes go wrong. On fact I have had more four strokes die on me than two strokes
My Cagiva is in dyer need of an engine rebuild, yet starts on the button every time. The fact of the matter is, MX are finding this too, four strokes are great up until they go wrong. Then they become extremely uneconomical to fix. Two stroke engines are so simple that any home mechanic can rebuild them. But four strokes the tolerances are much tighter and therefore less attainable for home mechanics.
If you are into bikes you wouldn't bother spending the money on a new four stroke. You would get a used smoker.
I also wouldn't buy a DT knowing what I know now. They are pretty shit if I am honest. Bang for buck I would get an Aprilia all day long.
For 90% of people ig really doesn't matter. They need something to go to school on etc. But winds me up when they put an exhaust on it and it sounds AWFUL! and literally like no performance gain
-
@stevie-wonder In the 15 years I have been riding smokers, I have never had one seize on me. In fact I know more people who have had four strokes go wrong. On fact I have had more four strokes die on me than two strokes
My Cagiva is in dyer need of an engine rebuild, yet starts on the button every time. The fact of the matter is, MX are finding this too, four strokes are great up until they go wrong. Then they become extremely uneconomical to fix. Two stroke engines are so simple that any home mechanic can rebuild them. But four strokes the tolerances are much tighter and therefore less attainable for home mechanics.
If you are into bikes you wouldn't bother spending the money on a new four stroke. You would get a used smoker.
I also wouldn't buy a DT knowing what I know now. They are pretty shit if I am honest. Bang for buck I would get an Aprilia all day long.
For 90% of people ig really doesn't matter. They need something to go to school on etc. But winds me up when they put an exhaust on it and it sounds AWFUL! and literally like no performance gain
@calum
I think I do know what stevie means about the 2/ curse, I think it’s more of the idiot factor of not putting in 2/ oil has created a myth. 4/s are just more idiot proof...If the Chinese flooded the market with 2/s they’d be a status quo betwixt the two. As it goes I hardly ever see a smoker on the road
tis a shame, there used to be sooo many to chose from...
As it goes 2/‘s seem to be enthusiasts only. No new blood. The new buyer people have flooded the market with 4/s, no?... -
@calum
I think I do know what stevie means about the 2/ curse, I think it’s more of the idiot factor of not putting in 2/ oil has created a myth. 4/s are just more idiot proof...If the Chinese flooded the market with 2/s they’d be a status quo betwixt the two. As it goes I hardly ever see a smoker on the road
tis a shame, there used to be sooo many to chose from...
As it goes 2/‘s seem to be enthusiasts only. No new blood. The new buyer people have flooded the market with 4/s, no?...@spookdog But that's what I'm saying, 2 smoke is enthusiasts. The youths are no longer interested in buying smokers. Maybe they never were, maybe people would just buy whatever was available and it just so happened to be that two strokes were the go to.
My point still stands, youths aren't interested in smokers. It's now just an enthusiast thing.
And Two Strokes still dominate the MX realm and they're making great strides with Two Strokes. Fuel Injection is now common place in the smoker scene. As well as AWD MX bikes
If you haven't checked out Cristinis AWD Motorcross bikes
Two strokes are still very much here, but the demand is less because people don't actively buy them.
https://www.christini.com/bikes/christini-awd-300
This one is carb but EFI is now common place for KTM, Husky and the like!
If you haven't checked out Cristini's AWD then go take a look
Sick as.
-
@spookdog But that's what I'm saying, 2 smoke is enthusiasts. The youths are no longer interested in buying smokers. Maybe they never were, maybe people would just buy whatever was available and it just so happened to be that two strokes were the go to.
My point still stands, youths aren't interested in smokers. It's now just an enthusiast thing.
And Two Strokes still dominate the MX realm and they're making great strides with Two Strokes. Fuel Injection is now common place in the smoker scene. As well as AWD MX bikes
If you haven't checked out Cristinis AWD Motorcross bikes
Two strokes are still very much here, but the demand is less because people don't actively buy them.
https://www.christini.com/bikes/christini-awd-300
This one is carb but EFI is now common place for KTM, Husky and the like!
If you haven't checked out Cristini's AWD then go take a look
Sick as.Mine own creation!...
It looks super bright (& a bit white) in the pic (or just ‘washed out), or it did in the original! but there is a reflector lense from one of those cheap stick on reflectors bonded over the red led. It’s actually no brighter than the tail light and kinda mellow. Beats carrying a spare bulb on long night rides...
Got it wired in with the front led spots...
I call them dog lites
-
Mine own creation!...
It looks super bright (& a bit white) in the pic (or just ‘washed out), or it did in the original! but there is a reflector lense from one of those cheap stick on reflectors bonded over the red led. It’s actually no brighter than the tail light and kinda mellow. Beats carrying a spare bulb on long night rides...
Got it wired in with the front led spots...
I call them dog lites
Blown Again!
Above is my new Athena gasket. I should of checked it closer before fitting. I didn’t see the scratch cause it was black with the coating. So this time it’s on me (again!!
)
You can see the leak path as a thin black line. The wetness in the head isn’t coolant, it’s unburnt oil (after a 70 mile ride!) Funny thing is the bike ran better after the head blew! The revs were crisp on pickup and really well ‘defined’. The rich mixture is another ongoing issue.
This is the plug after the same journey.
-
Blown Again!
Above is my new Athena gasket. I should of checked it closer before fitting. I didn’t see the scratch cause it was black with the coating. So this time it’s on me (again!!
)You can see the leak path as a thin black line. The wetness in the head isn’t coolant, it’s unburnt oil (after a 70 mile ride!) Funny thing is the bike ran better after the head blew! The revs were crisp on pickup and really well ‘defined’. The rich mixture is another ongoing issue.
This is the plug after the same journey.
-
And for my next trick!
This is within the last 70 miles...
What causes this? Overcompression? Overheating? It’s only disappearing below the spark plug so I don’t think it’s detonation, but I’m no expert...
Help!!...
@spookdog that is detonation/pre ignition damage! My dt was running 225psi compression before I lowered it and that suffered no detonation. Normally it's down to a lean mixture.
What heat range spark plug are you running?
Also heard of excess carbon build up causing detonation. -
Mine own creation!...
It looks super bright (& a bit white) in the pic (or just ‘washed out), or it did in the original! but there is a reflector lense from one of those cheap stick on reflectors bonded over the red led. It’s actually no brighter than the tail light and kinda mellow. Beats carrying a spare bulb on long night rides...
Got it wired in with the front led spots...
I call them dog lites
@spookdog I really like this, that blue looks gorgeous
-
@spookdog I really like this, that blue looks gorgeous
@edfrearson Endurance blue is definitely a favourite of mine.
-
@spookdog that is detonation/pre ignition damage! My dt was running 225psi compression before I lowered it and that suffered no detonation. Normally it's down to a lean mixture.
What heat range spark plug are you running?
Also heard of excess carbon build up causing detonation.
