So Close!...
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@Stevie-Wonder Age has nothing to do with it. The younger generation are more into their four bangers.
I see plenty of kids riding around on brand new KTM RC 125's and RS4 125s where the two stroke variants are MUCH cheaper to buy.
The fact of the matter is, kids these days actively seek out the Four Stroke market. The market is flooded with quality two strokes at the moment.
Insurance was never a factor for me, you're talking £300 a year to insure when I was at school. And most people I knew were driving around in Corsa's paying £1800 a year.
I also see lots of KTM Dukes/RC's stolen my way. So theft is pretty common regardless of engine configuration.
I've never considered Two Stroke 125 as expensive to run/maintained. Again with the aforementioned Corsas costing a lot more. BUT Four Stroke 125's are MINT on fuel and I'd recommend something like a Honda Grom if you're just commuting around a city.
But again you're talking £3500 to buy one of these and they're tiny
If the younger generation wanted a smoker then they'd get one.
@calum you’ve missed the point though, every person on a four banger wants a two stroke it’s just that it’s not the go to for your average learner because like I said before the age of the two stroke is long gone.
Every single one of my mates on their YZF’s, WR’s, Dukes all absolute fancy the pants off the DT and every single time will profess they wished they’d had one but....Enough time has passed that if you’re a 20 something in this day and age everything about a four banger is just better and more viable option. It’s just what’s pushed on to learner market these days, it’s nothing about interest at all it’s just about what’s easier and more readily available to your average learner.
That’s what I meant about a two stroke generation gap, turn back the clocks some 10-15 years and it’d be a different story. At least so I imagine, I’ll let you boys share your stories of being a yoof.
Speaking as someone who started on a four banger and fits into that category they’re just so much easier to swing a leg over. More affordable, easier to find someone who’d service them (because chances are the average learner don’t have any bike maintenance or mechanical skills), service intervals are simpler.
So like I say, learner riders aren’t getting on to four strokes through lack of interest just simply the lack of accessibility.
Proof of this is the 50cc’s, you’ll be hard pressed to find a geared 50 that hasn’t been tuned to 70/76cc.I get what you’re saying though you can buy a decent two stroke for 1,500 compared to 2k for a four banger however like I mentioned then you’ve also got to be able to afford the maintenance which if you can’t do yourself turns a 1,500 smoker into an unusable and expensive form of transport. Then there’s this, when you’re a new rider who knows nothing about two strokes the one thing you can guarantee you have heard is that they blow up / seize in a rather unexpected and dangerous fashion that a four stroke never will. Boom. Now guess who just bought a four banger?
Once again if this was 10-15 years ago and a few of your mates had two strokes someone would quickly explain the reason why that happens and how rare it happens as well but like I said before, it’s just not what’s viable option anymore so you’re left with us two stroke nuts keeping the torch litI fully get what your saying man, you got a good argument but for every good 125 two stroke on the market right now theres at least 8 four strokes that where purposely designed for a learner rider.
You are right though compared to a car everything’s expensive. I always laughed at the boy racers and just sat there thinking you could have a 600 which would dust off any learner car
It’s for that reason I did my driving lessons but haven’t bothered buying a car... what’s the point? Stupidly overpriced.Also dukes... funny you mention them. My friend Molly JD hers stolen a week after she sold it. They’re commonly stolen I think it’s because you can break there steering locks easy and also get a flash reader like you would for cars that just plugs in and makes it work like normal.
That and they’re easy to Hotwire unfortunately. Dukes are just a real easy target to nick, I’ve seen a few go missing my way as well -
@stevie-wonder In the 15 years I have been riding smokers, I have never had one seize on me. In fact I know more people who have had four strokes go wrong. On fact I have had more four strokes die on me than two strokes
My Cagiva is in dyer need of an engine rebuild, yet starts on the button every time. The fact of the matter is, MX are finding this too, four strokes are great up until they go wrong. Then they become extremely uneconomical to fix. Two stroke engines are so simple that any home mechanic can rebuild them. But four strokes the tolerances are much tighter and therefore less attainable for home mechanics.
If you are into bikes you wouldn't bother spending the money on a new four stroke. You would get a used smoker.
I also wouldn't buy a DT knowing what I know now. They are pretty shit if I am honest. Bang for buck I would get an Aprilia all day long.
For 90% of people ig really doesn't matter. They need something to go to school on etc. But winds me up when they put an exhaust on it and it sounds AWFUL! and literally like no performance gain
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@stevie-wonder In the 15 years I have been riding smokers, I have never had one seize on me. In fact I know more people who have had four strokes go wrong. On fact I have had more four strokes die on me than two strokes
My Cagiva is in dyer need of an engine rebuild, yet starts on the button every time. The fact of the matter is, MX are finding this too, four strokes are great up until they go wrong. Then they become extremely uneconomical to fix. Two stroke engines are so simple that any home mechanic can rebuild them. But four strokes the tolerances are much tighter and therefore less attainable for home mechanics.
If you are into bikes you wouldn't bother spending the money on a new four stroke. You would get a used smoker.
I also wouldn't buy a DT knowing what I know now. They are pretty shit if I am honest. Bang for buck I would get an Aprilia all day long.
For 90% of people ig really doesn't matter. They need something to go to school on etc. But winds me up when they put an exhaust on it and it sounds AWFUL! and literally like no performance gain
@calum
I think I do know what stevie means about the 2/ curse, I think it’s more of the idiot factor of not putting in 2/ oil has created a myth. 4/s are just more idiot proof...If the Chinese flooded the market with 2/s they’d be a status quo betwixt the two. As it goes I hardly ever see a smoker on the road
tis a shame, there used to be sooo many to chose from...
As it goes 2/‘s seem to be enthusiasts only. No new blood. The new buyer people have flooded the market with 4/s, no?... -
@calum
I think I do know what stevie means about the 2/ curse, I think it’s more of the idiot factor of not putting in 2/ oil has created a myth. 4/s are just more idiot proof...If the Chinese flooded the market with 2/s they’d be a status quo betwixt the two. As it goes I hardly ever see a smoker on the road
tis a shame, there used to be sooo many to chose from...
As it goes 2/‘s seem to be enthusiasts only. No new blood. The new buyer people have flooded the market with 4/s, no?...@spookdog But that's what I'm saying, 2 smoke is enthusiasts. The youths are no longer interested in buying smokers. Maybe they never were, maybe people would just buy whatever was available and it just so happened to be that two strokes were the go to.
My point still stands, youths aren't interested in smokers. It's now just an enthusiast thing.
And Two Strokes still dominate the MX realm and they're making great strides with Two Strokes. Fuel Injection is now common place in the smoker scene. As well as AWD MX bikes
If you haven't checked out Cristinis AWD Motorcross bikes
Two strokes are still very much here, but the demand is less because people don't actively buy them.
https://www.christini.com/bikes/christini-awd-300
This one is carb but EFI is now common place for KTM, Husky and the like!
If you haven't checked out Cristini's AWD then go take a look
Sick as.
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@spookdog But that's what I'm saying, 2 smoke is enthusiasts. The youths are no longer interested in buying smokers. Maybe they never were, maybe people would just buy whatever was available and it just so happened to be that two strokes were the go to.
My point still stands, youths aren't interested in smokers. It's now just an enthusiast thing.
And Two Strokes still dominate the MX realm and they're making great strides with Two Strokes. Fuel Injection is now common place in the smoker scene. As well as AWD MX bikes
If you haven't checked out Cristinis AWD Motorcross bikes
Two strokes are still very much here, but the demand is less because people don't actively buy them.
https://www.christini.com/bikes/christini-awd-300
This one is carb but EFI is now common place for KTM, Husky and the like!
If you haven't checked out Cristini's AWD then go take a look
Sick as.Mine own creation!...
It looks super bright (& a bit white) in the pic (or just ‘washed out), or it did in the original! but there is a reflector lense from one of those cheap stick on reflectors bonded over the red led. It’s actually no brighter than the tail light and kinda mellow. Beats carrying a spare bulb on long night rides...
Got it wired in with the front led spots...
I call them dog lites
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Mine own creation!...
It looks super bright (& a bit white) in the pic (or just ‘washed out), or it did in the original! but there is a reflector lense from one of those cheap stick on reflectors bonded over the red led. It’s actually no brighter than the tail light and kinda mellow. Beats carrying a spare bulb on long night rides...
Got it wired in with the front led spots...
I call them dog lites
Blown Again!
Above is my new Athena gasket. I should of checked it closer before fitting. I didn’t see the scratch cause it was black with the coating. So this time it’s on me (again!!
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You can see the leak path as a thin black line. The wetness in the head isn’t coolant, it’s unburnt oil (after a 70 mile ride!) Funny thing is the bike ran better after the head blew! The revs were crisp on pickup and really well ‘defined’. The rich mixture is another ongoing issue.
This is the plug after the same journey.
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Blown Again!
Above is my new Athena gasket. I should of checked it closer before fitting. I didn’t see the scratch cause it was black with the coating. So this time it’s on me (again!!
)You can see the leak path as a thin black line. The wetness in the head isn’t coolant, it’s unburnt oil (after a 70 mile ride!) Funny thing is the bike ran better after the head blew! The revs were crisp on pickup and really well ‘defined’. The rich mixture is another ongoing issue.
This is the plug after the same journey.
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And for my next trick!
This is within the last 70 miles...
What causes this? Overcompression? Overheating? It’s only disappearing below the spark plug so I don’t think it’s detonation, but I’m no expert...
Help!!...
@spookdog that is detonation/pre ignition damage! My dt was running 225psi compression before I lowered it and that suffered no detonation. Normally it's down to a lean mixture.
What heat range spark plug are you running?
Also heard of excess carbon build up causing detonation. -
Mine own creation!...
It looks super bright (& a bit white) in the pic (or just ‘washed out), or it did in the original! but there is a reflector lense from one of those cheap stick on reflectors bonded over the red led. It’s actually no brighter than the tail light and kinda mellow. Beats carrying a spare bulb on long night rides...
Got it wired in with the front led spots...
I call them dog lites
@spookdog I really like this, that blue looks gorgeous
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@spookdog I really like this, that blue looks gorgeous
@edfrearson Endurance blue is definitely a favourite of mine.
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@spookdog that is detonation/pre ignition damage! My dt was running 225psi compression before I lowered it and that suffered no detonation. Normally it's down to a lean mixture.
What heat range spark plug are you running?
Also heard of excess carbon build up causing detonation. -
@spookdog I really like this, that blue looks gorgeous
Wasn’t my first choice! I also have every plastic panel (& tank) in mid/flat black.
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@spookdog yeah they run a 9 heat range plug as standard. Could be a combination of raised compression and lean mixture. Can run lean running to much oil even.
There’s a thread somewhere that has the volume of 3mb & 3bn heads, even has the volume of the dome on (a Makita, done it again!) Mitaka! piston iirc. I can’t find it for looking. Can anyone please help?...
I did a fluid test on the 3mb head I have fitted and it was more than my spare 3bn head! So I really need 3rd party measures...
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There’s a thread somewhere that has the volume of 3mb & 3bn heads, even has the volume of the dome on (a Makita, done it again!) Mitaka! piston iirc. I can’t find it for looking. Can anyone please help?...
I did a fluid test on the 3mb head I have fitted and it was more than my spare 3bn head! So I really need 3rd party measures...
Why am I only now hearing about o~ring heads! How long has this been viable tech?...
Am I missing out on anything else? Backwards compatible airflow metred injector inlets that run off of a simple lambda probe in the exhaust?! Perfect mixture all the time?!...Ahhhhh 🤯
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Why am I only now hearing about o~ring heads! How long has this been viable tech?...
Am I missing out on anything else? Backwards compatible airflow metred injector inlets that run off of a simple lambda probe in the exhaust?! Perfect mixture all the time?!...Ahhhhh 🤯
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Apologies if this is a daft question as I'm late to the party, but if you're blowing head gaskets have you checked that the head and the cylinder surfaces are perfectly flat?
Could be an opportunity to take it off, remove the studs and lap them both flat again on a sheet of glass (or engineers table) to be 100%
Ignore me if you've already checked this issue
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Apologies if this is a daft question as I'm late to the party, but if you're blowing head gaskets have you checked that the head and the cylinder surfaces are perfectly flat?
Could be an opportunity to take it off, remove the studs and lap them both flat again on a sheet of glass (or engineers table) to be 100%
Ignore me if you've already checked this issue
@nottsbiker
No daft questions bud. I haven’t recorded all my nightmares. But yeah, I’ve removed the studs and cleaned , checked and lapped. The second and third time the head blew are down to me, once using a gasket that had already been fitted, again when I used a copper gasket without fully understanding the process and not using spray sealant. The final time there was a scratch in the gasket that I didn’t expect or spot.I’ve fitted another new Athena gasket and torqued it properly. I’ve fitted a newly lapped 3bn head that’s tip top condition, and weirdly higher compression (12.5~13ml) than the 3mb I was using (14ml)...
The gasket blowing is only 1 issue I’m having. I have a black sooty plug, bogging down over 1/2 throttle and a nasty bog 1/4 throttle where the needle valve kicks in, that has been happening since I first got the bike. Oh and unburned oil in the chamber/ around plug. I’ve no idea what previous owners did to the carb. It was running on a 180 main jet though...
Every time I get somewhere another problem kicks in...New Athena gasket torqued properly, I’ve disconnected the oil pump and gone premix. Rejetted the carb to standard and am going to take it from there. Square one again 🥴
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@nottsbiker
No daft questions bud. I haven’t recorded all my nightmares. But yeah, I’ve removed the studs and cleaned , checked and lapped. The second and third time the head blew are down to me, once using a gasket that had already been fitted, again when I used a copper gasket without fully understanding the process and not using spray sealant. The final time there was a scratch in the gasket that I didn’t expect or spot.I’ve fitted another new Athena gasket and torqued it properly. I’ve fitted a newly lapped 3bn head that’s tip top condition, and weirdly higher compression (12.5~13ml) than the 3mb I was using (14ml)...
The gasket blowing is only 1 issue I’m having. I have a black sooty plug, bogging down over 1/2 throttle and a nasty bog 1/4 throttle where the needle valve kicks in, that has been happening since I first got the bike. Oh and unburned oil in the chamber/ around plug. I’ve no idea what previous owners did to the carb. It was running on a 180 main jet though...
Every time I get somewhere another problem kicks in...New Athena gasket torqued properly, I’ve disconnected the oil pump and gone premix. Rejetted the carb to standard and am going to take it from there. Square one again 🥴
